Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[TheIronMaiden]

According to tankathon the Flames have the 13th hardest schedule moving forward.

FWIW Van is 16th and LA is 20th

[kehatch]

The last rebuild we spent 4 futile seasons just shy of the playoffs while our tradeable assets depreciated in value. When we finally had to rebuild we did it on the back of high draft picks, later draft picks, trades, and free agencies. Even then, we exited the rebuild prematurely because we had some marginal success that made us think we were better then we were.

Finishing shy of the playoffs but outside of the bottom 10 is worst case scenario, and the bottom 10 isn't going to happen. So absolutely, let's make the playoffs.

But I really hope the management and ownership aren't suckered into thinking we are better then we are. We are on the lower end of marginal by just about every metric, and guys like Kadri, Huberdeau, Backlund, Weegar, etc aren't going to age like fine wine.

If you can trade a guy like Kadri or Huberdeau then you should. Unless your absolutely sure you can sign Andersson then trade him. The Flames need to be looking beyond this season. But I don't get the sense the Flames are entertaining those kinds of moves because they are focused on the playoffs this season.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by kehatch

The last rebuild we spent 4 futile seasons just shy of the playoffs while our tradeable assets depreciated in value. When we finally had to rebuild we did it on the back of high draft picks, later draft picks, trades, and free agencies. Even then, we exited the rebuild prematurely because we had some marginal success that made us think we were better then we were.

Finishing shy of the playoffs but outside of the bottom 10 is worst case scenario, and the bottom 10 isn't going to happen. So absolutely, let's make the playoffs.

But I really hope the management and ownership aren't suckered into thinking we are better then we are. We are on the lower end of marginal by just about every metric, and guys like Kadri, Huberdeau, Backlund, Weegar, etc aren't going to age like fine wine.

If you can trade a guy like Kadri or Huberdeau then you should. Unless your absolutely sure you can sign Andersson then trade him. The Flames need to be looking beyond this season. But I don't get the sense the Flames are entertaining those kinds of moves because they are focused on the playoffs this season.

The Flames just executed a trade that clearly had a vision beyond this season. Hubderdeau is playing better but still is worth more to keep now given we have no need for the cap space and what the return would be. Kadri isn't going anywhere, has a full NMC and doesn't want to leave. Andersson can't sign a contract until July 1, so the trade or sign decision doesn't have to come until next year. They aren't entertaining those moves because it doesn't make sense to force them. Has nothing to do with the focus or vision of the team.

[Roof-Daddy]

I want to horde draft picks and pick top 10 but what can you do?

Conroy did all he could to set us up to be in the top 10 and keep our pick. Two proven top 4 NHL dmen. Zero proven starting NHL goalies. Payroll just barely above the cap floor and that includes retained/dead money.

The team just isn't bad enough to pick that high, and has probably already bottomed out.

But the Flames appear to have found not only a starting goalie, but a star goalie who is just 24. Our D and W prospect pool is absolutely loaded and we still have 4 first round picks in the next two drafts. Just have to make those count and hope we can dig up some high end C prospects deeper in the draft than top 5 or 10.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by kehatch

The last rebuild we spent 4 futile seasons just shy of the playoffs while our tradeable assets depreciated in value. When we finally had to rebuild we did it on the back of high draft picks, later draft picks, trades, and free agencies. Even then, we exited the rebuild prematurely because we had some marginal success that made us think we were better then we were.

Finishing shy of the playoffs but outside of the bottom 10 is worst case scenario, and the bottom 10 isn't going to happen. So absolutely, let's make the playoffs.

But I really hope the management and ownership aren't suckered into thinking we are better then we are. We are on the lower end of marginal by just about every metric, and guys like Kadri, Huberdeau, Backlund, Weegar, etc aren't going to age like fine wine.

If you can trade a guy like Kadri or Huberdeau then you should. Unless your absolutely sure you can sign Andersson then trade him. The Flames need to be looking beyond this season. But I don't get the sense the Flames are entertaining those kinds of moves because they are focused on the playoffs this season.

Trade Huberdeau? Fat chance. He’s still on pace for less than 60 points.

Playing better yes, but still far from his cap hit.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

According to tankathon the Flames have the 13th hardest schedule moving forward.

FWIW Van is 16th and LA is 20th

This means virtually nothing considering how often this team rises to the occasion against better teams.

I'd be more concerned if they had a line up of down and out clubs playing out the string.

Good opponents will keep them engaged.

Wolf also seems to relish facing superstars and top teams.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am not worried at all about Conroy spending picks on win-now players. I am sure he is intent on building this team up through the draft, and I am sure GMs calling about over-the-hill UFAs for picks get met with the same response: "You will only get those picks from my cold, dead hands."



This is a build - however you want to phrase it. I don't envision Conroy thinking that they are suddenly contenders.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

According to tankathon the Flames have the 13th hardest schedule moving forward.

FWIW Van is 16th and LA is 20th

these are always *

Down the stretch and at the very end its often the bubble teams that are the hardest games and the teams with spots in the bag are some of the easier ones.

[SutterBrother]

With the cap going up so much, are teams even concerned about cap space after this season anymore?

Connie may have made the last trade of the "cap crunch" era. Philly fans seemed to hone in on the 7 million of additional cap room next season... but then BOOM the cap jumps 7.5 million in 25-26 and 16 million in 26-27.

I mean I'm sure eventually the GM's will catch up as they shoot themselves in balls with overpays. But for the next three years, weaponizing available cap doesn't feel like a thing?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

With the cap going up so much, are teams even concerned about cap space after this season anymore?

Connie may have made the last trade of the "cap crunch" era. Philly fans seemed to hone in on the 7 million of additional cap room next season... but then BOOM the cap jumps 7.5 million in 25-26 and 16 million in 26-27.

I mean I'm sure eventually the GM's will catch up as they shoot themselves in balls with overpays. But for the next three years, weaponizing available cap doesn't feel like a thing?

I'm sure NHL GMs knew what was publicly released the other day already, or at least would have had an idea.

Part if me wonders if that's a reason Philly and Calgary finally made the move.

Calgary already had a ton of cap space, but taking on $5M from Farabee is even less risky when the cap is going up $7.5M.

For Philly with the cap going up all of a sudden you think you can go big game hunting if you can clear out Farabee's money.

$5M (Farabee) + $4M (Johansen) + $7.5M (cap increase) and all of a sudden you have $15M+ to actually be able to be in the Marner / Rantanen sweepstakes if you want to go down that route.

Flyers also have a ton of picks to make a splash at the draft (3 x 1sts , 4 x 2nds).

[Scrambler]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

According to tankathon the Flames have the 13th hardest schedule moving forward.

FWIW Van is 16th and LA is 20th

The 'problem' for tank enthusiasts with this in mind is that this team does pretty good versus good teams, provided our PK doesn't let us down.

TOR and COL coming up are two good tests. Let's see how these go.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am not worried at all about Conroy spending picks on win-now players. I am sure he is intent on building this team up through the draft, and I am sure GMs calling about over-the-hill UFAs for picks get met with the same response: "You will only get those picks from my cold, dead hands."

This is a build - however you want to phrase it. I don't envision Conroy thinking that they are suddenly contenders.

This off season will be telling around how patient he will be. So far, he's followed a similar path to Treleving -- with a few more skilled UFAs to unload.

He's done a good job with that, and his Frost/Farabee trade are excellent, as he seems to patiently be working the league, but it isn't too different up to this point to Treleving's first couple years. The next couple will be interesting.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

This off season will be telling around how patient he will be. So far, he's followed a similar path to Treleving -- with a few more skilled UFAs to unload.

He's done a good job with that, and his Frost/Farabee trade are excellent, as he seems to patiently be working the league, but it isn't too different up to this point to Treleving's first couple years. The next couple will be interesting.

Ya Conroy and Treliving are not the same. In Brad’s first three years he basically collectively did the following

Out
Two first round picks
Six second round picks
Three third round picks
A 5th round pick
One 6th round pick

In
Four 2nd round picks
A 3rd round pick
A 4th round pick

Conroy

Out
A 2nd
A 4th
A 5th
A 7th

In

Three first round picks
Two second round picks
Three 3rd round picks
A 4th round pick
Two 5th round picks
A 6th round pick

In order for Conroy to be anything like Brad’s first 3 years he would have to: trade 5 first round picks, trade 3 2nd round picks and trade 5 third round picks and not get any picks back in return.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I want to horde draft picks and pick top 10 but what can you do?

Conroy did all he could to set us up to be in the top 10 and keep our pick. Two proven top 4 NHL dmen. Zero proven starting NHL goalies. Payroll just barely above the cap floor and that includes retained/dead money.

The team just isn't bad enough to pick that high, and has probably already bottomed out.

But the Flames appear to have found not only a starting goalie, but a star goalie who is just 24. Our D and W prospect pool is absolutely loaded and we still have 4 first round picks in the next two drafts. Just have to make those count and hope we can dig up some high end C prospects deeper in the draft than top 5 or 10.

I agree the Flames are too good to be terrible. That's the point. The types of moves we are making are normally done to round out a strong core. Without the core these types of moves are just going to keep us in the "too good to be terrible, not good enough to be great" category.

I am not talking about the Frost deal specifically, that was just a high value move period. But holding on to pending ufas like Lindholm, Hanafin, Andersson; targeting mid line tweeners; potentially giving up true futures for assets that help now; etc. It's unlikely to balance our aging vets let alone make the large step forward we desperately need.

I am just tired of a strategy that, at best, keeps is very average.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I agree the Flames are too good to be terrible. That's the point. The types of moves we are making are normally done to round out a strong core. Without the core these types of moves are just going to keep us in the "too good to be terrible, not good enough to be great" category.

I am not talking about the Frost deal specifically, that was just a high value move period. But holding on to pending ufas like Lindholm, Hanafin, Andersson; targeting mid line tweeners; potentially giving up true futures for assets that help now; etc. It's unlikely to balance our aging vets let alone make the large step forward we desperately need.

I am just tired of a strategy that, at best, keeps is very average.

The Flames have not used that strategy under Conroy though. So there is not really anything to worry about in that regard. He has a pretty simple strategy, trade pending UFAs for futures, keep veterans who are not pending UFAs so the young players have someone to learn from and the Flames don’t end up with years and years of crap like almost every rebuild and when it makes sense make targeted trades for young NHL players that fit the age category he is trying to build around.

Conroy has not made a single trade of the type that you are worried about.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Ya Conroy and Treliving are not the same. In Brad’s first three years he basically collectively did the following

Out
Two first round picks
Six second round picks
Three third round picks
A 5th round pick
One 6th round pick

In
Four 2nd round picks
A 3rd round pick
A 4th round pick

Conroy

Out
A 2nd
A 4th
A 5th
A 7th

In

Three first round picks
Two second round picks
Three 3rd round picks
A 4th round pick
Two 5th round picks
A 6th round pick

In order for Conroy to be anything like Brad’s first 3 years he would have to: trade 5 first round picks, trade 3 2nd round picks and trade 5 third round picks and not get any picks back in return.

I get it sure ... but isn't that situational?

Conroy took over a team that missed the playoffs and had 7 UFAs who seemed to want out.

If he didn't end up with more draft capital in this 18 month window than his predecessor he's be a lunatic!

[Monahammer]

Setting up for the worst possible outcome:

- hold assets at max value instead of selling
- Potentially resign older players to long term contracts
- Barely miss playoffs this year
- Give up our 1st to montreal.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Setting up for the worst possible outcome:

- hold assets at max value instead of selling
- Potentially resign older players to long term contracts
- Barely miss playoffs this year
- Give up our 1st to montreal.

Do we really need to go through this all again?

Can't you just do a site search on the last time you brought this up?

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Do we really need to go through this all again?

Can't you just do a site search on the last time you brought this up?

You don't have to reply mon ami. Are you disputing that this is the likely outcome?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You don't have to reply mon ami. Are you disputing that this is the likely outcome?

You don't find this whole dance repetitive?