The Tariff Thread

[OldSam]

If the Republicans had any balls, and I think their actions proves they absolutely do not, no one would have to deal with the emperor. He would have been cast aside. But we have to deal with it. It is clear we need to respond in kind. Donny doesn't like strong responses. He wants a quick capitulation. He just wants to win. Doesn't give a #### about anyone but himself.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

The USA failing to actually punish Trump for his crimes has truly become a global problem.

Not to mention that their stupid laws somehow allow a convicted felon to run for the highest office in the land. That country is severely f'd up.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by DFO

Why do so many people focus so intently on O&G in this? It’s only a part of Canada’s economy right? Hell even if all our oil was being exported elsewhere these tariffs would still be crippling to the economy.

Industries like agriculture, lumber and other commodities are going to suffer and these tariffs are catastrophic. Alberta ranchers are going to have an incredible impact, and all people care about is whether we should’ve approved Northern Gateway over a decade ago. It’s kind of unbelievable.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

If the definition hasnt changed since school, Tariffs essentially act as an import tax applied to goods of companies outsourcing their manufacturing and bringing that product into the US to sell.

So isn't this Trump waging war primarily on his own consumers who will bear the brunt of those costs and American companies for not sourcing parts and manufacturing in the US by doing this? And by the same logic, aren't retaliatory Canadian Tariffs what Canadian consumers should be most wary of?

A program gave a breakdown of how Canadian consumers can expect to be effected by rhe Trump tartifs and the products listed were pretty limited (cereals for example). Things we can live with not buying much of in the next 4 years.

Biggest difference would be seen in products that have parts sourced from other tariffed nations, manufactured in the US and sold here. That's only certain products though.

Obviously it will have profound effects on multinational corporations and ones with a large US consumer base where goods originate here, but in terms of whos pocketbooks are impacted most this seems like Trump shooting himself and american businesses in the foot more than anything.

There's no infrastructure in place that can be thrown together in 4 years to effectively replace mexico and china and bring all that manufacturung home...

So much potential damage to the US economy all for ... fentanyl deaths, most of which can be attributed to activity borne on US soil? Dude is nuts.

Canada learning to be more self sufficient and expanding exports/relations with order nations may have short term pain but ultimately work in the country's favor long term and bolster its sovereignty, if anything.

We became far too dependent on the US. So this might be a necessary pain that was better to happen now instead of being pushed off until later.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Gee I wonder who is going to swoop in and buy up a bunch of fledgling companies who are hurt by tariffs. Could it be the billionaires that control the US government? And I wonder what will happen after those billionaires own those companies. Maybe the tariffs will go away and now the billionaires will have bought successful businesses for pennies on the dollar.

[CaptainCrunch]

Tarrifs really are designed to work on incoming products that are cheaper then locally produced products because of things like labor costs or unequal trade practices or labor practices.



I mean primarily the area that Americans should be using it against Canadians is with food that Canadian's protect with supply chain management or things that Canada subsidized like Softwood lumber.



The problem with this trump plan or blanket tariffs, is there are products that are not produced in the US, that American's need to buy. If Trump had been smart, and he's not the initial rounds of Tarrifs would have been selective and he could have stuck to his argument of unfair trade practices and the side benefit of pressure Canada on the border.



But, I think we know that the real goal is pretty simple. Trump wants to crack out economy, he wants to make investment in Canada a bad proposition, so all of those manufacturing jobs in Ontario and the East come to Michigan. And all of these companies in Canada move their offices to the States, its non velvet glove economic assassination, and that's why I say its going to last 6 to 8 months until Trump eases up on it.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Azure

70-80% of the potash the US uses comes from Canada, and the US is a month or so away from seeding season starting.

Can't wait to see how that will work.

This would have a much more delayed effect. The potash fertilizer producers and blenders are buying now would be for fall applications, which wouldn't see an effect on consumers until the year after.

Farmers made do with dealing with the crazy Urea prices a few years ago, making do with potash price spikes is a lot more manageable. I don't think it's going to be as big a deal as the 70-80% number would suggest.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

So isn't this Trump waging war primarily on his own consumers who will bear the brunt of those costs and American companies for not sourcing parts and manufacturing in the US by doing this? And by the same logic, aren't retaliatory Canadian Tariffs what Canadian consumers should be most wary of?

Exactly. They hurt domestic consumers and foreign producers and lead to an inefficient allocation of resources. Like any time the government interferes with people freely and willingly conducting business.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

70-80% of the potash the US uses comes from Canada, and the US is a month or so away from seeding season starting.

Can't wait to see how that will work.

I’m also interested to see how they handle the uranium situation because they want to expand their nuclear programs and get a significant chunk of uranium from Canada. I guess they could always call up their pals in Moscow to replace this, or I’m sure China would be willing trading partner for them.

[Azure]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1885717289040855099

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I didn't hear her say anything about not expecting to deal with the EU. She seems quite pragmatic about keeping all options open to mitigate the losses.

The question was posed by Rosie about other trade partners and Arsenault said (obviously just her opinion):

These are excellent things to explore but if there is an expectation that the rest of the world will come to Canada's defense, that might be outside of reality.

[Sylvanfan]

Canada and Mexico should threaten to join BRICS just to see the reaction.

[Azure]

lol. All the things we should be doing is like a list of all the things we'll never accomplish as a country.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1885653273299788112

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by chummer

Trump says if we retaliate he will raise the tariffs, Jesus Christ.

Then the retaliation has to come with severe enough consequences to the US to call his bluff.

That's how they got him to back down in 2017.

Canada has to out-crazy Trump with their response.

That's probably accomplished in the arena of energy.

[CaptainCrunch]

I’m also interested to see how they handle the uranium situation because they want to expand their nuclear programs and get a significant chunk of uranium from Canada. I guess they could always call up their pals in Moscow to replace this, or I’m sure China would be willing trading partner for them.

Yeah, I'm not as smart as I used to be, but Trump's interest in Greenland kinda creates a conspiracy theory, I think that it contains the 6th largest Uranium deposits and 2nd largest deposit of rare earth metals.



If he's playing for energy independence and strategic mineral independence, then Greenland becomes key because the only countries that could fight the US military (not win but fight) are China and Russia, and they already have their own access to rare earth metals.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Then the retaliation has to come with severe enough consequences to the US to call his bluff.

That's how they got him to back down in 2017.

Canada has to out-crazy Trump with their response.

That's probably accomplished in the arena of energy.

Or we send Canadians in to the white house on tourist runs and have them top shelf all the toilets.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Gee I wonder who is going to swoop in and buy up a bunch of fledgling companies who are hurt by tariffs. Could it be the billionaires that control the US government? And I wonder what will happen after those billionaires own those companies. Maybe the tariffs will go away and now the billionaires will have bought successful businesses for pennies on the dollar.

Perhaps - I think that the fact that he has mused about doing away with personal income taxes seems to suggest that there are other ways that the government can collect revenue and tariffs are a very regressive monetary policy that will really hit those who are low income earners the hardest. Which incidentally are his base and those who live in the worst parts of America.

It is too bad that we are so economically attached to that country due to geography. Maybe this will serve to curb American consumerism as prices start to rise.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by direwolf

So you're blaming everyone except the orange s***stain who is responsible? WTF, dude? Only one person is the cause of this mess, and he's currently sitting in the Oval Office. Might want to direct your ire towards him and his MAGA lunatic handlers instead.

If the Liberals weren't so incredibly short-sided in not encouraging exports outside the US, we wouldn't nearly feel the same impacts.

I don't know, it's reasonable business practice to not have all your eggs in one basket.

To blame Trump for this mess is inexcusable.

And we have a PM who resigned and government is progued.

Absolutely pathetic state this government has allowed Canada to be put into.

[Flabbibulin]

Probably a good thing Habs aren’t hosting an American team tonight…. I can’t see Ottawa fans protesting during the anthem.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

The alternative is using Trumps own playbook on him.

Claim you're sending a new division of security resources to the border to oversee and secure it (you only actually need bare bones in terms of real resources so that you can provide visual evidence). Give it a fancy name Trump will like and can publicly take credit for. Then in a number of months provide some fake stats about how it's slowing down the movement of fentanyl.

All about holding up an image for a little while to placate that loser. Same as he's done with his imaginary wall and various other initiatives paraded around and bandied about but never actually followed through on.

Trump's always been about taking glory in the press but what actually gets done on the ground is secondary in importance.

Really his entire legacy is built on claims that can't be factually verified.

When you're dealing with a buffoon who has too much power at his disposal than he knows how to handle responsibly you have to Truman Show him into thinking he's doing great and winning and tackle real issues behind the scenes until he's out of the picture.