Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Incentives are nice and I love when the government gives me money but most incentive programs really only help well-to-do people who can afford to do retrofits or purchase electric cars and whatever else. These types of incentive programs are really just an offshoot of trickle down economics where they think that giving breaks to wealthy people will help the environment overall. Taxes from the poor and middle class are just going to subsidize purchases made by people above them financially.

Yeah, this plan better be more than tax credits. Nothing I hate more than "giving" incentives only to the people who can afford the upfront capital cost. If they can do this properly at the point of sale to reduce costs immediately for all people, I think this can work.

But this kind of plan will be criticized as the government picking winners and losers - which is exactly why conservatives originally argued for the market based carbon tax over direct government intervention.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

You're the biggest hypocrite on here. Post after post is is about PP not being fit for PM, but the Trudeau government, mired in scandal after scandal for literally the better part of his entire tenure as Prime Minister, its been crickets from you.

"Usual deflections."

Is rich coming from a Liberal apologist.

So still no answer? Are you ashamed of it and don't want to share?

Deflect! Deflect!

I've been on team Trudeau must go for awhile now, so I don't know what you are no about. Anyway, back to my original question for you:

Do you believe a policy of purposeful ignorance to play politics is Prime Minister like behaviour?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Yeah, this plan better be more than tax credits. Nothing I hate more than "giving" incentives only to the people who can afford the upfront capital cost. If they can do this properly at the point of sale to reduce costs immediately for all people, I think this can work.

But this kind of plan will be criticized as the government picking winners and losers - which is exactly why conservatives originally argued for the market based carbon tax over direct government intervention.

It’s a dollar based rebate system that will be paid for by large industrial emitters. Essentially, large emitters will be encouraged to get their emissions down, but will also be able to buy credits to meet the threshold. Those credits will directly fund the consumer rebates, so in theory, even if they aren’t reducing emissions, they will still be paying for a reduction by funding green initiatives. On top of that, they’re looking at an EU-inspired carbon tariff, where tariffs will be applied on products from countries with poor performance, but not on countries with similar or better performance, and those tariffs will also fund these initiatives.

The plan does not suggest it will be paid for through tax dollars.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s a dollar based rebate system that will be paid for by large industrial emitters. Essentially, large emitters will be encouraged to get their emissions down, but will also be able to buy credits to meet the threshold. Those credits will directly fund the consumer rebates, so in theory, even if they aren’t reducing emissions, they will still be paying for a reduction by funding green initiatives. On top of that, they’re looking at an EU-inspired carbon tariff, where tariffs will be applied on products from countries with poor performance, but not on countries with similar or better performance, and those tariffs will also fund these initiatives.

The plan does not suggest it will be paid for through tax dollars.

Thanks! Well, better than tax credits, but I've never been a fan of "buying credits" as it gives them an out to reducing emissions, kind of like I can speed all I want because I can afford the ticket. Using it to directly fund green indicatives does help, but I am wary of it being enough.

But I am not going to allow perfect to get in the way of good. Seems like a decent idea, and I am all for carbon tariffs, the one agreement I have had against the carbon tax was that it didn't increase import costs to punish countries with large emissions.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Capital Gain Increase Delayed to 2026

Government is delaying the increased capital gains tax until 2026.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Thanks! Well, better than tax credits, but I've never been a fan of "buying credits" as it gives them an out to reducing emissions, kind of like I can speed all I want because I can afford the ticket. Using it to directly fund green indicatives does help, but I am wary of it being enough.

But I am not going to allow perfect to get in the way of good. Seems like a decent idea, and I am all for carbon tariffs, the one agreement I have had against the carbon tax was that it didn't increase import costs to punish countries with large emissions.

Yeah, the fact is that the carbon tax as it stands now is pretty much universally acknowledged as the best way to achieve these goals when balancing all the important factors, but it’s political poison, so is this better? No. But it’s something that makes sense at least.

I also don’t love the buying credits idea, but if those credits are going to directly fund consumer rebates I can at least see the logic (they emit a bit more if pay others to emit a bit less, probably doesn’t balance out but as you said, perfect vs good and all that).

I also like the tariff angle. But I would also like them to expand that idea entirely and open things up between Canada and other like-minded countries. Remove duties for goods purchased from countries in good standing (based on criteria like environmentalism, human rights, etc), and add heavily ones for those that aren’t. Right down to outsourcing work. If you want to outsource a job, great, but create a system where that outsourcing is going to cost you the equivalent or more of what it would cost to have it done locally.

But that’s totally off topic.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Capital Gain Increase Delayed to 2026

Government is delaying the increased capital gains tax until 2026.

Yeah, I got that notice too.

So...its basically dead. If the CPC win they'll never enact it, if the Liberals win they wont have the Political Capital to push it through.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, I got that notice too.

So...its basically dead. If the CPC win they'll never enact it, if the Liberals win they wont have the Political Capital to push it through.

After all of this, if the liberals win we would have to consider them to be one of the most untouchable parties in the history of politics so I’m pretty sure they would 100% push it through.

[Jacks]

Ekos just spamming out the polls now every couple days. Numbers are miles different than any other pollster, one poll you can call an outlier, this is multiple polls now. Seems like he's desperate to show some massive shift in momentum toward the Liberals instead of the few points difference that everyone else is showing. Graves is either the only one getting it right or has no credibility whatsoever, I know which one I'd bet on.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Ekos just spamming out the polls now every couple days. Numbers are miles different than any other pollster, one poll you can call an outlier, this is multiple polls now. Seems like he's desperate to show some massive shift in momentum toward the Liberals instead of the few points difference that everyone else is showing. Graves is either the only one getting it right or has no credibility whatsoever, I know which one I'd bet on.

It is odd how big of an outlier they are. Is there a lot of evidence of pushing Liberals in the past? Is there something obvious with a political connection? I know they aren't rated as high by 338. But if you look back to Sept 2023 when the CPC pulled ahead, they tracked all the way along until now. So unless something has changed, it's tough to just right it off just because they have a different answer.

[Firebot]

I mean he pretty much vowed to use everything he has at his disposal to make sure Poilievre never gets elected PM.

What kind of poll releases numbers 4 times in 2 weeks (2 in 2 days?)

EKOS January 29, 2025 [1] 33.9 32.0 18.0 7.6 3.4 4.9 0.2 ±3.1 pp 1,025 telephone/online 1.9
EKOS January 27, 2025 [1] 35.7 32.7 13.1 7.1 4.7 4.9 1.9 ±2.6 pp 1,448 IVR 3.0
Leger January 26, 2025 [2] 43 25 16 9 2 4 1 ±2.51 pp 1,527 online 18
Abacus Data January 26, 2025 [3] 43 22 18 9 3 5 0 ±2.2 pp 2,205 online 21
Nanos Research January 24, 2025 [4] 42.0 24.9 18.0 7.4 1.8 5.6 — ±3.1 pp 1,023 (1/4) telephone (rolling) 17.1
EKOS January 21, 2025 [5] 38.5 31.7 14.2 7.1 3.1 3.2 2.1 ±3.1 pp 1,018 IVR 6.8
Nanos Research January 17, 2025 [6] 45.2 20.8 18.7 7.7 1.9 5.3 — ±3.1 pp 1,040 (1/4) telephone (rolling) 24.4
EKOS January 16, 2025 [7] 39.0 28.0 17.4 7.4 2.5 4.5 1.2 ±3.0 pp 1,036 IVR 11.0

[Firebot]

Case and point.



Also on the Liberal slant, from the 2010 article as it's under a paywall

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle4352832/

Mr. Graves' original comments, which were first quoted by columnist Lawrence Martin in The Globe, suggested he had told the Liberal Party it should invoke a "culture war" to battle the Conservatives. He described this as a battle between "cosmopolitanism versus parochialism, secularism versus moralism, Obama versus Palin, tolerance versus racism and homophobia, democracy versus autocracy. If the cranky old men in Albera don't like it, too bad. Go south and vote for Palin."

[Jacks]

Ekos makes a lot of money on government polling contracts. That budget was slashed under Harper and then restored by Trudeau, draw your own conclusions.

[shotinthebacklund]

So Carney's plan is a carbon tax...where large emitters pay, then charge everyone else anyway. But LOOK, THEY CAN BUY MYTHICAL GREEN CREDITS! that will solve the world problems.
Lets see those green slush fund documents and who profiteered off of them first, then lets talk about a carbon tax of a new shiny colour.

[Firebot]

Also what did Singh / NDP do in 2 days to suddenly jump 5 points (while being at an abysmal 13% 2 days ago)? (sorry had some really weird post hiccups)

EKOS January 29, 2025 [1] 33.9 32.0 18.0 7.6 3.4 4.9 0.2 ±3.1 pp 1,025 telephone/online 1.9
EKOS January 27, 2025 [1] 35.7 32.7 13.1 7.1 4.7 4.9 1.9 ±2.6 pp 1,448 IVR 3.0

[shotinthebacklund]

Double post

[shotinthebacklund]

Yeah, the fact is that the carbon tax as it stands now is pretty much universally acknowledged as the best way to achieve these goals when balancing all the important factors, but it’s political poison, so is this better? No. But it’s something that makes sense at least.

I also don’t love the buying credits idea, but if those credits are going to directly fund consumer rebates I can at least see the logic (they emit a bit more if pay others to emit a bit less, probably doesn’t balance out but as you said, perfect vs good and all that).

I also like the tariff angle. But I would also like them to expand that idea entirely and open things up between Canada and other like-minded countries. Remove duties for goods purchased from countries in good standing (based on criteria like environmentalism, human rights, etc), and add heavily ones for those that aren’t. Right down to outsourcing work. If you want to outsource a job, great, but create a system where that outsourcing is going to cost you the equivalent or more of what it would cost to have it done locally.

But that’s totally off topic.

You are 100% to a tee describing economic ,Social, Governance. Now go one step further and you have the Communist party of China.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

So Carney's plan is a carbon tax...where large emitters pay, then charge everyone else anyway. But LOOK, THEY CAN BUY MYTHICAL GREEN CREDITS! that will solve the world problems.
Lets see those green slush fund documents and who profiteered off of them first, then lets talk about a carbon tax of a new shiny colour.

It’s not hard to have a more thoughtful understanding of his proposal than this, if that’s important to you.

[shotinthebacklund]

Dont start gaslighting again Pepsi

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

You are 100% to a tee describing economic ,Social, Governance. Now go one step further and you have the Communist party of China.

I doubt very much you have any idea what I’m describing, or even what you just said, to be honest.