Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

yes, I agree with this. I think she should have been quiet, and taken a package to the ROC with demands in exchange for keeping export tariffs on the table as a discussion point.

We've been over this many times now. The federal government does not need Alberta's consent or agreement or anything to "keep export tariffs on the table", either as an actual option or just as a discussion point.

Originally Posted by BoLevi

This also assumes that Alberta would get ALL of the revenue created by the oil export tariff.

I mean, to the extent that export tariffs on energy caused economic harm to Alberta (or Newfoundland for that matter), I expect that the federal government may very well give Albertans special financial assistance, but it would have nothing to do with Smith's use of her (basically) non-existent bargaining power.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

In hockey terms, she should have asked for two first rounders just to not say what she did. Then if they actually want to put tariffs on, she would ask for 5 first rounders.

In hockey terms it's more like she was one of 4 on the ice trying to kill a penalty, and instead of being a team player and staying in her zone defending against the power play she slowly skated away, went over to the opposition's bench and started flirting with the coach.

[belsarius]

Forget oil and gas.. how long can they hold out once we cut off our Maple Syrup supply!

Plus, is anyone else starting to think that calling this a "trade war" is just an excuse for Trudeau to pull out the War Measures Act and remain in power until the Trump threat is over? Seems like a Laurentian thing to do.

Victory or poutine!

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Albertans should be the most frustrated over her actions. Many who I’ve spoken with(including mostly UCP supporters) that understand even the basic fundamentals of negotiation are frustrated. If her goal is to try and use her current position as leverage in negotiations with the other provinces, in my opinion she has chosen the highest risk option with no additional potential of reward.

I think Smith is doing the right thing.

Here’s what happened the last time a Trudeau slapped an export tax on Alberta Energy:

• unemployment quadrupled from 3.7% to 12.4% as thousands lost their jobs
• home values plummeted 30% and thousands lost their homes
• bankruptcies rose by over 150%
• tens of thousands left the province plunging us into a multi-year recession
• cost to Alberta was between $50-$100 Billion

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by StickMan

I think Smith is doing the right thing.

Sorry, what is Smith doing to stop the federal government from imposing an export tariff on energy exports?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

yes, I agree with this. I think she should have been quiet, and taken a package to the ROC with demands in exchange for keeping export tariffs on the table as a discussion point.

Actually using them would then be a whole different package.

In hockey terms, she should have asked for two first rounders just to not say what she did. Then if they actually want to put tariffs on, she would ask for 5 first rounders.

This also assumes that Alberta would get ALL of the revenue created by the oil export tariff.

Mmm, demands. That's totally the best way to deal with discussions. Does everyone forget the real enemy is down south, and not the RoC? You would think Smith is on team Trump given her behaviours.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

In hockey terms, she should have asked for two first rounders just to not say what she did. Then if they actually want to put tariffs on, she would ask for 5 first rounders.

Huh?

The price is 2 1sts! No, just kidding, 5!!! That'd make even Jay Feaster look like a competent GM.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

In hockey terms it's more like she was one of 4 on the ice trying to kill a penalty, and instead of being a team player and staying in her zone defending against the power play she slowly skated away, went over to the opposition's bench and started flirting with the coach.

Canada isn't a team. Never has been.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Makarov

We've been over this many times now. The federal government does not need Alberta's consent or agreement or anything to "keep export tariffs on the table", either as an actual option or just as a discussion point.

We've been over this. We don't know what will happen with the tariffs on Monday, and what would occur if Central Canada tried to put an export tariff on oil. It's certainly not going to be as simple as you are suggesting. If they do it without Alberta's agreement, Central Canada will be opening up a second front. It probably would be a bad idea to put the tariff on even if Alberta was willing and enthusiastic about doing it. Never mind that it would setoff an avalanche of court challenges/injunctions etc.

It's also curious that everyone is so upset with Smith, while simultaneously saying Alberta has no power.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Mmm, demands. That's totally the best way to deal with discussions. Does everyone forget the real enemy is down south, and not the RoC? You would think Smith is on team Trump given her behaviours.

Depending on what he does Monday, Trump might cement himself as a bigger friend to Alberta than Central Canada (and BC) have ever been.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

We've been over this. We don't know what will happen with the tariffs on Monday, and what would occur if Central Canada tried to put an export tariff on oil. It's certainly not going to be as simple as you are suggesting. If they do it without Alberta's agreement, Central Canada will be opening up a second front. It probably would be a bad idea to put the tariff on even if Alberta was willing and enthusiastic about doing it. Never mind that it would setoff an avalanche of court challenges/injunctions etc.

It's also curious that everyone is so upset with Smith, while simultaneously saying Alberta has no power.

Do you think the same logic applies to import tariffs? Like, if a crown corporation imported a bunch of steel from the US in 2018, that they wouldn't be subject to the tariff? Because that's now how it normally works. BC Ferries (back when they were a crown corporation) routinely paid tens of millions of dollars of import duties on ferries built abroad. Do you think they just did that for fun? No, because being a crown corporation doesn't mean you're exempt from import/export duties.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

We've been over this. We don't know what will happen with the tariffs on Monday, and what would occur if Central Canada tried to put an export tariff on oil. It's certainly not going to be as simple as you are suggesting. If they do it without Alberta's agreement, Central Canada will be opening up a second front. It probably would be a bad idea to put the tariff on even if Alberta was willing and enthusiastic about doing it. Never mind that it would setoff an avalanche of court challenges/injunctions etc.

It's also curious that everyone is so upset with Smith, while simultaneously saying Alberta has no power.

I'm a lawyer for government. Trust me, a provincial or the federal government are not afraid of a bit of litigation, especially in pursuit of important strategic goals (and rhey don't get much more important than this). In terms of injuctuons, I feel very confident in saying that I can't see any way Alberta succeeds in obtaining an interim or interlocutor injunction restraining the federal government fromexerc8s8nf what appears to be very clear constitutional and statutory authority.

And people are mad at Smith precisely because she is pretending to exercise power that she doesn't have and, in the process, is sabotaging the ROC's position.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Depending on what he does Monday, Trump might cement himself as a bigger friend to Alberta than Central Canada (and BC) have ever been.

Don't be a rube. Trump doesn't have friends, or long term business partners. He screws everyone. Do people not pay attention to how these people act? It's all right there to see how big of incompetent liars they are, yet you line up to suck their dicks. I don't get it.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I'm a lawyer for government. Trust me, a provincial or the federal government are not afraid of a bit of litigation, especially in pursuit of important strategic goals (and rhey don't get much more important than this). In terms of injuctuons, I feel very confident in saying that I can't see any way Alberta succeeds in obtaining an interim or interlocutor injunction restraining the federal government fromexerc8s8nf what appears to be very clear constitutional and statutory authority.

And people are mad at Smith precisely because she is pretending to exercise power that she doesn't have and, in the process, is sabotaging the ROC's position.

Two things to note:

1. Canada can immediately regain full unity by taking oil and gas off of the negotiating table.

2. It's probably a better outcome for everyone if the "other" gov't lawyers succeed at what you say they can't. An export tax on Alberta oil would solve one problem, but create a massive other one. Nothing would animate a western autonomy movement more than that. Many people who want Confederation to be weakened or more believe that this time of affront is precisely what is needed to gain support. I think the moment the feds impose an export tax, we will be plunged into a constitutional and unity crisis. Confederation needs fixing in a big way, but it is unlikely to happen without some type of significant tinderbox event like this. (Also, If you are a lawyer working for gov't, I assume you're suitably anonymous behind your account.)

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Two things to note:

1. Canada can immediately regain full unity by taking oil and gas off of the negotiating table.

2. It's probably a better outcome for everyone if the "other" gov't lawyers succeed at what you say they can't. An export tax on Alberta oil would solve one problem, but create a massive other one. Nothing would animate a western autonomy movement more than that. Many people who want Confederation to be weakened or more believe that this time of affront is precisely what is needed to gain support. I think the moment the feds impose an export tax, we will be plunged into a constitutional and unity crisis. Confederation needs fixing in a big way, but it is unlikely to happen without some type of significant tinderbox event like this. (Also, If you are a lawyer working for gov't, I assume you're suitably anonymous behind your account.)

These are NOT the people who should be listened to for advice on paths forward. You must live in this tiny subset of Canadians who have convinced themselves of their own self importance in their views, and somehow believe they broadly represent Canadian views. They do not. They are the fringe. Unfortunately one of those #### faces is our premier. This is why I have always been firmly against electing #### faces to government. Stop advocating for the positions of fringe #### faces.

[Cappy]

Lawyers have a saying:

When you have good facts, you pound the facts.
When you have good law, you pound the law.
When you have neither, you pound the table.

Smith's hands are raw from hitting that table.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Lawyers have a saying:

When you have good facts, you pound the facts.
When you have good law, you pound the law.
When you have neither, you pound the table.

Smith's hands are raw from hitting that table.

Hardly. She has made no requests of any kind. Smith is not being the aggressor here.

Refusing to participate is much different than being angry when your demands aren't met.

[Looch City]

Are you even for real? Being angry and "fighting Ottawa" is like her WHOLE persona.

Remove that and you have what...a boring radio host lol.

[TheKiprusoffResurrection]

If Carney wins liberal leadership, he can count on my vote. If Freeland wins, I'm sitting this one out.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Slava

This point is interesting because I think just the opposite is happening. Are American companies loading up because they see the tariffs coming and want to get ahead?

Grain flow definitely changed