Let's talk about Fluoride (again)

[blankall]

Originally Posted by blankall

I've always hated fluoride application. Not because of the mind control stuff, but because those foam inserts they put into your moth are awful. When I was a kid, they were always too big and would hit the back of my mouth causing me to gag. The foam inserts are squishy in a very unpleasant way. The fluoride seeps out of them and has a really awful minerally taste, and a taste from the foam applicator itself, that is somehow not masked by the way to minty taste.

I remember when I got older they offered me a mouth wash and that was like winning the lottery.

Just thinking about the Fluoride applications I can taste and feel them in my mouth....

I don't think I'll be able to focus on work for the rest of the day. May run into an alley to cry and vomit instead.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They paint it on your teeth like varnish, now. Better? I dunno, I've had good applicators and bad.

I had that, and didn't like how sticky it felt after. I guess out of the 3 (tray, varnish, mouthwash), i just go with the mouthwash. None of them are that fun. I hate the taste of the mouthwash. I just settle for the lesser of the 3 evils lol.

[Fuzz]

The varnish is the best if applied properly. If applied poorly, it's tied for worst.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They paint it on your teeth like varnish, now. Better? I dunno, I've had good applicators and bad.

Worse feeling. Ugh.

But, probably better result.

[troutman]

What to know about a controversial new study on fluoride and IQ
The study is likely to further inflame politicized debates over water fluoridation

https://www.statnews.com/2025/01/06/...fect%20emerged

Other meta-analyses and systemic reviews on fluoride and IQ have come to different conclusions. One from 2023, for example, found “fluoride exposure relevant to community water fluoridation is not associated with lower IQ scores in children.” Another from 2021 found an “inverse association between fluoride exposure and IQ was particularly strong in the studies at high risk of bias, while no adverse effect emerged in the only study judged at low risk of bias.”

“There’s no perfect study. These meta-analyses help us get a picture from multiple [studies],” said Mark Moss, a dentist and epidemiologist who was an author on the 2023 meta-analysis. He said the new JAMA Pediatrics study “looks bad from afar. But we go back to this generalizability issue, and that those are not really high-quality studies.”

Several experts also questioned how applicable the studies used in the latest meta-analysis would be to the U.S. The majority of the studies were conducted in China and India, where people have other exposures to fluoride, like pollution from coal or drinking high volumes of tea, and water fluoridation is not as tightly monitored. The report itself notes in its conclusion that no studies of fluoride and IQ have been done in the U.S., “hindering application of these findings to the US population.”

[Azure]

As in their are no high quality studies to show its a benefit, or none to show that its a problem?

Seems like applying it orally to your teeth via toothpaste, mouthwash, flouride treatment, etc is a clear cut benefit, no? So the supposed issue is strictly in drinking it?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Azure

As in their are no high quality studies to show its a benefit, or none to show that its a problem?

Seems like applying it orally to your teeth via toothpaste, mouthwash, flouride treatment, etc is a clear cut benefit, no? So the supposed issue is strictly in drinking it?

You know what man, I dont know anymore. I always thought Fluoride in the water was fine, then theres all these studies and this group is backed by the Dental Lobby and that group is backed by the anti-dentites and its just impossible to know what to believe anymore.

Cant some elderly person just say "we had Fluoride in the water since forever and it was never a problem" or something to that effect?

And I know this is borderline proselytizing but...I'm getting sick of having to fight a war over every, tiny, little thing.

Should we have vaccines?
Should we have fluoride in the water?
Should we....its just enough already.

Put the Fluoride back in the goddamned water and then create some magical tome of the entire Water/Fluoride debate and have it locked and chained to Elon's next rocket to Mars or whatever.

I'm tired of it.

[Geraldsh]

Our well on the farm had the highest fluoride in the county. I had a high IQ but never used it. High alcohol content and many sleepless nights eventually wore it down to CP level.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

The good thing about Calgary discontinuing floride was you got the perfect large scale, long term study of very similar populations.

You couldn't ask for a better experiment for modern western societies on the effectiveness of fluoride across multiple demographic and income groups. This data set will be amazing for analysis.

Good news, it's been done:

We examined the effects of fluoridation cessation in Calgary, Canada (occurred in 2011) on dental caries experience, via a comparison of population‐based samples of Grade 2 schoolchildren in Calgary and in Edmonton where fluoridation remains in place. By collecting data in 2018/2019, we included a cohort of child residents who were born following cessation and would thus have lifelong exposure to fluoridation (Edmonton) or its absence (Calgary), including pre‐ and post‐eruptive effects.
For primary teeth, findings were consistent with an adverse effect of fluoridation cessation on dental caries experience.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9542152/

Looking at the stats of study subjects, besides no fluoride in water and sugary drink consumption, Calgary is basically better in all metrics(duh) but still has worse outcomes.

[Azure]

Yes we know its a benefit for strengthening your teeth, etc.

That isn't the question.

Its also not necessary to drink it in order to actually 'get it.'

[PepsiFree]

Let’s just take a poll of people here who grew up with fluoridated water and that should tell us if it lowers your IQ or not.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Let’s just take a poll of people here who grew up with fluoridated water and that should tell us if it lowers your IQ or not.

Led me down a small hole. Canmore does not add fluoride, but has natural levels of 0.11 mg/L from a 2013 test. Calgary has reported levels of 0.09 – 0.28mg/L. The CDC reports an optimal level of 0.7mg/L but effective above 0.6mg/L and safety standards are in the below 2-2.5 range.



So I got a naturally occurring dose below effective levels, and we got the fluoride rinse in school, I have to guess once a month?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Led me down a small hole. Canmore does not add fluoride, but has natural levels of 0.11 mg/L from a 2013 test. Calgary has reported levels of 0.09 – 0.28mg/L. The CDC reports an optimal level of 0.7mg/L but effective above 0.6mg/L and safety standards are in the below 2-2.5 range.



So I got a naturally occurring dose below effective levels, and we got the fluoride rinse in school, I have to guess once a month?

Then how come you only have that one snaggletooth at the front? Your mouth looks like a rudimentary can opener....

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Locke

Then how come you only have that one snaggletooth at the front? Your mouth looks like a rudimentary can opener....

That's my British side. Comes with the accent.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's my British side. Comes with the accent.

Oh sure! Typical. Blame the British for poor Dental work! Next thing you know you'll be blaming them for Colonialism, international propagation of slavery, fish and chips and the Irish Potato famine!

Its always the fault of the British! Look out! Look out! The British are coming!

Now put the Fluoride back and lets call this thing a day.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Led me down a small hole. Canmore does not add fluoride, but has natural levels of 0.11 mg/L from a 2013 test. Calgary has reported levels of 0.09 – 0.28mg/L. The CDC reports an optimal level of 0.7mg/L but effective above 0.6mg/L and safety standards are in the below 2-2.5 range.



So I got a naturally occurring dose below effective levels, and we got the fluoride rinse in school, I have to guess once a month?

Hmmm, sounds like a lot of fluoride. That tracks.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Good news, it's been done:


https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9542152/

Looking at the stats of study subjects, besides no fluoride in water and sugary drink consumption, Calgary is basically better in all metrics(duh) but still has worse outcomes.

I love when people do the work I ask for without me having to do anything.

Table 2 with all the potential confounding factors really shows Edmonton is No Good yet still has better teeth.

[Bill Bumface]

I think there are areas in Colorado that have above safe levels of fluoride. Can we just study those guys and see if they all turned out as hillbillies?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I think there are areas in Colorado that have above safe levels of fluoride. Can we just study those guys and see if they all turned out as hillbillies?

Oh...I knew a few people in Colorado and...we may not like the outcome of that study.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I think there are areas in Colorado that have above safe levels of fluoride. Can we just study those guys and see if they all turned out as hillbillies?

Sounds like for municipal water they dilute it down. Too much causes fluoridosis and brown teeth.

No. Colorado Springs water managers dilute the amount of fluoride in the city’s water since naturally-occurring fluoride is plentiful in the Pikes Peak region. If you live in the area, you can check out an interactive map to see how much fluoride is in your water.

https://www.uchealth.org/today/the-t...olorado-roots/