How do we ACTUALLY improve this team

[gvitaly]

First, this team this year is already a huge improvement on the team we had last year. I assume you mean improve by becoming a perennial playoff team, and then a contender.
For me, it comes down to good asset management and having a good prospect development and succession plan within the organization.

Current Roster Holes:

• 1C
• 1RW
• Stay at home 3-4D
• Puck moving D, PP specialist
• 4C, PK + faceoff specialist
• 4RW

Upcoming/potential Roster Holes(1-2 years)

• 2/3C - Backlund - Father time
• 2/3C - Kadri - Father time
• 2D - Andersson - trade

Possible sources of improvement:

• Younger players already on the team improving and getting a bigger role:
  • Wolf becoming a top 5 goalie
  • Zary becoming a 2a/1b Centre
  • Coronato becoming a defensively responsible 30G scoring winger
  • Pelletier having a similar career trajectory to Manigapane with the Flames
• Prospects(including upcoming picks)
• Cap Space
  • Trades
  • Free agency
• Improve coaching
  • Get a top 10 PP
  • Get a top 10 PK
  • Get more skills coaches to address individual weaknesses
• Improve chemistry

The organization did a great job at re-stocking the defence. As a result, 1-2 of Parekh, Mews, and Brzustewicz will be playing in our top 4 within 2-3 years. The defensive D are more curious, and I hope that either Kuznetsov or Solovyov manages to get a (bigger) role in the NHL after the deadline this year, or to start next year. That said, I could see the Flames addressing this particular hole via free agency - Ekblad, and Lindgren come to mind.

Coronato also looks like he's on his way to become a 1RW, and Sharangovich could become our 2RW option, which I'm perfectly fine with.

The biggest question mark of this organization for the past 25 years remains at Centre. We should probably draft one, but that's easier said than done. Most likely that Centre is at least 5 years away, unless Zary takes another huge step. Pettersson is definitely a guy I'm intrigued with, because he's elite offensively, and pretty good defensively as well. If this organization attempts to go the re-tool route, then he is probably my top target.

No matter what the organization does, I think they should use their cap space this season. Either to generate futures, or improve the team so that they make the playoffs and remain competitive. The experience of a playoff round would be pretty valuable for all of Zary, Coronato, Wolf, Pelletier, etc.

[kehatch]

I don't agree with the 'stay the course' crowd. The current course is to try and remain competitive as possible while focusing on drafting and development to improve in the future. The issue is winning now and building for the future contradict each other and continue our eternal mediocrity.

For winning now: We have been moderately competitive and are fighting for a playoff spot, but we aren't in serious cup contention. We are spotting teams 20 million in cap and we are limited in the moves we can make to improve.

For building for the future: We have been successful in developing players such as Zary, Wolf, Coronato, and Pospisil. We have a handful of exciting prospects in the system. But we don't have the high picks to maximize our chance at superstars. We also have to hold onto pending UFAs too long to get maximum value, and our trades are focused on assets that contribute to winning now.

We are doing fine in both areas. But it's unlikely we can do better then fine if we continue to compromise in both areas to focus on the other. Which is why we will likely continue to be mediocre.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

First, this team this year is already a huge improvement on the team we had last year. I assume you mean improve by becoming a perennial playoff team, and then a contender.
For me, it comes down to good asset management and having a good prospect development and succession plan within the organization.

Current Roster Holes:

• 1C
• 1RW
• Stay at home 3-4D
• Puck moving D, PP specialist
• 4C, PK + faceoff specialist
• 4RW

Upcoming/potential Roster Holes(1-2 years)

• 2/3C - Backlund - Father time
• 2/3C - Kadri - Father time
• 2D - Andersson - trade

Possible sources of improvement:

• Younger players already on the team improving and getting a bigger role:
  • Wolf becoming a top 5 goalie
  • Zary becoming a 2a/1b Centre
  • Coronato becoming a defensively responsible 30G scoring winger
  • Pelletier having a similar career trajectory to Manigapane with the Flames
• Prospects(including upcoming picks)
• Cap Space
  • Trades
  • Free agency
• Improve coaching
  • Get a top 10 PP
  • Get a top 10 PK
  • Get more skills coaches to address individual weaknesses
• Improve chemistry

The organization did a great job at re-stocking the defence. As a result, 1-2 of Parekh, Mews, and Brzustewicz will be playing in our top 4 within 2-3 years. The defensive D are more curious, and I hope that either Kuznetsov or Solovyov manages to get a (bigger) role in the NHL after the deadline this year, or to start next year. That said, I could see the Flames addressing this particular hole via free agency - Ekblad, and Lindgren come to mind.

Coronato also looks like he's on his way to become a 1RW, and Sharangovich could become our 2RW option, which I'm perfectly fine with.

The biggest question mark of this organization for the past 25 years remains at Centre. We should probably draft one, but that's easier said than done. Most likely that Centre is at least 5 years away, unless Zary takes another huge step. Pettersson is definitely a guy I'm intrigued with, because he's elite offensively, and pretty good defensively as well. If this organization attempts to go the re-tool route, then he is probably my top target.

No matter what the organization does, I think they should use their cap space this season. Either to generate futures, or improve the team so that they make the playoffs and remain competitive. The experience of a playoff round would be pretty valuable for all of Zary, Coronato, Wolf, Pelletier, etc.

While agree on a lot if your premises im not quite so down on the wing position. Huby and scoronato are playing top six level. get sharky going he is a top six.

My original post was more geared toward the next trade deadline. I dont think with our wealth of wingers we will expend anything on that position.
Top four defenders hard to get, young centers even more so.

Honestly except for a young center deal falling in our lap i think we do nothing this trade deadline.

Costs are too high, our one real trade chip wants to stay and the team wants to re sign him. Most transaction require salary coming back and usually term to make the deal work since the guy they are trading would have to meet our parameters of age and contract.

Ya i see a quiet flames trade deadline unless that elusive center deal comes our way.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by D as in David

If the rumours are true about a return to the game this season for Jonathan Toews, sign him to replace Rooney. If the Flames fall out of the race, tell him that he'll get traded to a playoff-bound team.

ETA: Only sign him for this year.

Can't imagine Calgary would be his preferred choice, playing 4th line no less. With the prize being traded at the deadline if needed.

Hometown Winnipeg a likely choice, or one of the cup contenders.

He will want to pick his team.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I don't agree with the 'stay the course' crowd. The current course is to try and remain competitive as possible while focusing on drafting and development to improve in the future. The issue is winning now and building for the future contradict each other and continue our eternal mediocrity.

For winning now: We have been moderately competitive and are fighting for a playoff spot, but we aren't in serious cup contention. We are spotting teams 20 million in cap and we are limited in the moves we can make to improve.

For building for the future: We have been successful in developing players such as Zary, Wolf, Coronato, and Pospisil. We have a handful of exciting prospects in the system. But we don't have the high picks to maximize our chance at superstars. We also have to hold onto pending UFAs too long to get maximum value, and our trades are focused on assets that contribute to winning now.

We are doing fine in both areas. But it's unlikely we can do better then fine if we continue to compromise in both areas to focus on the other. Which is why we will likely continue to be mediocre.

While yes the higher the pick the better the chances getting top three is historically bad and being last with chicago and sj are not good. Look at detroit while i dont think their drafting is great but they havent gotten a top two pick and this is flams luck we are discussing here to get a first overall.

I believe you need to be top ten, drafts are getting deeper and most drafts now have top line players past the second or third pick. I have seen a guy like Frondell in this draft anywhere from first to fifteen.

I will put one caveat on that top ten rating. Most centers that project top line top six are gone by the first half to two thirds of the draft so if we want a center our best chances for it are top 20. I would have no problem expending some of our assets to get into the top twenty if the mqeens or frondells happen to drop. Near the teens but again you have to get a taker and first round picks dont move all that much and are pricy when they do

[Jason14h]

The biggest issue is a non top 5 (really even top 3) pick usually doesnt play for a few seasons.

A non top 10 pick usually doesnt play for 3-5 seasons

Look at the Flames impact youth draft year

Zary - 2020
Coronato - 2021
Pelletier - 2019
Wolf - 2019
Bahl - 2018

So while it is great we are finally getting a surplus of picks, the reality is we are looking at 5 years down the road for impact, and probably 6-7 until they are a top 2 line players

There is also the problem very few non top picks turn out. When you get to 15th overall and later first rounders you are looking at a 33% chance to even play 500 games (15th pick) to ~25% chance on picks 25-32 (Picks we trade for as an example)

https://thehockeywriters.com/success...l-draft-picks/

This is why teardowns take 10 years - It takes 5 years for the next wave of reinforcements to all mature and even start making an impact in the league

So we have to assume we are going to miss on 1/2 of our own picks (If we are drafting 15thish), and 1/4 of our traded picks and that these players will take ~5 years to even start making any impact when we look at where we will end up. You WANT to do better then the average - but if your strategy is "Just draft and develop better then everyone" - I have news - That's everyones strategy

In 5 years this is the age of our players

Backlund 40
Coleman 38
JH: 36
Kadri - 39
Sharangovich - 31
Andersson - 34
Weegar - 36

That is a TON of talent you need to replace that is aged out (or about to age out) with the up and coming player JUST to get to the point we are at today.

To me - This is why not tearing down is just going to prolong the pain. You might be more competitive over the next 5 years with these guys, but your arent getting even more excess assets to try and replace them.

If you have enough excess assets in 5 years, you can trade for the next Eichel, Stone, Petterson (rumored), etc who is getting traded at that time because you have what teams are looking for in these trades.

Having 2 extra 1st round picks and a few later rounds isn't getting you the asset class to replace the aging out players, and trade for top line talent.

This is also why finishing last or winning the lottery is important. Having to trade 3 good assets for an Eichel is a lot more expensive then drafting one asset wise.

And you can even.... Do both and have multiple superstars.

But the time to do this was the offseason. Now we are actually playing amazing for our talent base, have no real path to getting multiple superstars, and will push this pain out multiple years until the aging out players have no value (Leaving out NTC's as who knows where a player is willing to go/how they handcuff the team)

So apart from a real honest how do we get great strategy? I guess drag this out, hope 3 of our mid round drafted guys become superstars, and the Wolf is Marty Brodeur

[the-rasta-masta]

Lately I’ve been thinking more and more that if it weren’t for the NMC, now would be the perfect time to trade Backlund. Obviously he controls this, but I feel he has value right now and is playing pretty well, but I find I notice he’s lost a step. Not a huge drop but I just don’t find I see him carrying the puck through the neutral zone with the same strength and speed as I’m used to seeing. I’d like to see him have a chance at a cup and I would hate to see regression next year where perhaps no value coming back to the Flames in a trade and hard to find a suitor at his salary and level of play. Who knows, maybe he plays strong for several years but I find I’m starting to see some cracks, this is coming from a huge Backlund fan.

Trading Backs this year could get us some significant draft capital.

[Geeoff]

Draft well, win trades, avoid UFA landmines

[Major Major]

Conroy has shown that he is a very good evaluator of talent at amateur and pro levels. He's a pure scout style GM.

What he does with Andersson will tell me all I need to know about how he manages assets.

You simply can't have 2 long term 30+ year old RSD contracts when your top 3 prospects are right shot defensemen.

[Wastedyouth]

How do we ACTUALLY? We don't.

We are people on a message board.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

IMO, the best way to improve the team is to continue on the current course, being: sell vets as their contracts mature, and stockpile picks. Don't 'buy' as the team is still too far away from contending.

Over the course of the next two or three years, if we continue to focus on the draft, and continue to develop the youth, we should have enough pieces to see where we are, and whether it is time to sart adding, and trading, in order to take things to the next level.

In foresight, hindsight, and every other kind of 'sight', the trade for Hamonic was so moronic.

Brad jumped the gun thinking we could compete so traded futures for the reputation of Hamonic. He was not great and absolutely not worth the price paid.

Conny is doing a great job dealing with the assets and just needs to keep doing what they are doing and NOT JUMP THE GUN.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

How do we ACTUALLY? We don't.

We are people on a message board.

OK, but I think the question is how do we actually figuratively, literally.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Patience. That's how.


I think the biggest organization strength is drafting and development, so unless some good hockey trades materialize, I would rather hold onto all the picks and prospects and leverage it into the future.



Whether you want to tear it down some more or just slowly build through the draft, I do think that this is the best way forward for the next 2-3 seasons.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

OK, but I think the question is how do we actually figuratively, literally.

Well now then, THAT is the question!

[Strange Brew]

I would rather we not tank intentionally. But if the team isn't great, don't prop them up with signing veterans. This is what Conroy has done IMO.

But a player like Rasmus is an inflection point. Do you re-sign if he is willing or focus on getting younger? Probably better to look 3 or 4 years down the road and get some assets for him while also keeping as much powder dry as possible. You can throw some money at your younger players and would give you more wiggle room if one of those contracts doesn't work out.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

I think we improve this team over time by:

- continued focus on developing all of the players under the Flames umbrella

- continuing the strategy to increase, or at least maintain, the number of draft picks we have every year

- never ever giving up assets for rental players at the deadline (objectively doesn't work on an aggregate basis)

- opting to prioritize internal solutions and allow competition amongst draftees versus spending franchise capital ($ capital or draft capital) to plug holes

- pray for some luck

[DJones]

Go after young RFA centers and pray to god one of them hits.

Reinhart/Bennett type moves from Florida essentially.

Keep drafting and developing well.

[Kipper_3434]

By cycling out low quality players and replacing them with good players. Team could win the cup right now, wolf has a 65% win percentage. Coaching has been good, development is good, just need a couple better D-men and to construct better 4th and 3rd lines. Feels close though. Very close.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Lose 55+ games a year for the next 4 years
Win the lottery at least 3 times
Miraculously reverse the losing culture at that point and become repeat champions
Just like the Oilers
Wait…

Flames and Oilers are like polar opposites. Oilers suck at drafting and developing, but always luck into generational talents that can drag their team into competence. Flames have no luck ever drafting any sort of generational superstar, but are good at drafting and developing later round picks into NHL players that collectively make the team competent. If Flames had the Oiler's draft lottery luck, I have no doubt they'd be perennial contenders.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Flames and Oilers are like polar opposites. Oilers suck at drafting and developing, but always luck into generational talents that can drag their team into competence. Flames have no luck ever drafting any sort of generational superstar, but are good at drafting and developing later round picks into NHL players that collectively make the team competent. If Flames had the Oiler's draft lottery luck, I have no doubt they'd be perennial contenders.

I'm just not in favour of teaching our current kids to lose any way you slice it.