American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by edslunch

How much does this cost employers to provide? I’ve never heard that discussed as another hidden cost of the US system.

Average cost of employer sponsored health insurance is $24,000 for families. Employer covers about 75% of the cost, probably, so $18,000 per year from employer, about $6000 payroll deduction from employee.
Freedom isn't free

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Healthcare in the U.S. is not exclusively tied to employment. Other options include:

Other options include joining the military or charity care and free clinics? You don't have to go down the list very far before it turns into a dystopian nightmare where large portions of the population rely on charity as a means of receiving healthcare.

What percentage of the population can receive adequate healthcare via charity and does this include things like GoFundMe.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by troutman

How dare John and Amy follow the law!

Amy is turning into an interesting Justice. She must be quite influenced by Roberts and is not what the MAGA hoped she'd be.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I'm not really buying that if you are saying if you had a good employer based health care plan. A good plan will have an annual out of pocket limit in the 3-4000 range, no upper limit, and limited requirements for pre-approvals. What plan are you comparing it to?

As I said, at the time. I did some looking after talking to my wife, and found laws have changed since then. So huge quote disclaimer, this is old old info

One consequence is that terminating disabled workers—which can end their medical coverage under the employer’s plan—has become an increasingly common practice in recent years. In fact, a study released last year by Mercer Human Resource Consulting found that about half of U.S. firms terminate employees either as soon as they go on long-term disability status or at a set time thereafter.

https://www.shrm.org/mena/topics-too...ees-disability


So they would have fired her long before real treatments and expensive procedures started. And with a 20% co pay at the time, a newly married couple with student loans, and before GoFundMe, we wouldn't have made it a month in costs. The whole thing was a long shot here anyway, so there we would have just made peace with it then and let her go.


I guess I honestly don't know what it is like now for that stuff.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

About 60% of Americans medical health insurance is tied to employment. Medicare, which you mentioned, covers seniors. Anyone over the age of 65 (who have met meager employment standards) has government provided health insurance through medicare.
If you are layed off from your work, or fired or whatever, you basically immediately lose your insurance. It's difficult for people who have just lost their job to cover the cost of health insurance. Also understand the all employment in America is 'employment at will' which essentially means you can have your employment terminated without any cause at any time, and without compensation.

C’mon man, this is an extremely misleading take. If you truly do live in the US, you’re either not educated about the health care options, or you’re purposely making it seem worse than it is. In no way am I saying the system works, doesn’t need improvement, or is fair, but I strongly disagree with the way you’re spinning this.

If you get laid off from work, you have the ability to continue on your normal health plan through COBRA (a federal law) for 18 months after you are laid off. You have 60 days after being laid off to decide if you would like to elect into that plan via COBRA or purchase a health care plan on the marketplace. Now COBRA is generally much more expensive than a marketplace health plan, but you have 60 days to elect into it, and the coverage is retro-active. So even if you had a medical issue during that 60 day election period, but haven’t elected into COBRA, you are able to then elect in after the fact and your medical event would be covered. Generally though, people will take the 60 days to shop around and pick a plan in the marketplace that makes sense for them and go with that.

Again, there are a lot of issues with the system, but you making it seem like once you’re laid off, you’re immediately SOL with no health insurance and can go bankrupt right away if something happens is extremely misleading.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Average cost of employer sponsored health insurance is $24,000 for families. Employer covers about 75% of the cost, probably, so $18,000 per year from employer, about $6000 payroll deduction from employee.
Freedom isn't free

When comparing Canada and US taxes, this cost should be added to any comparison to make it even. It never is, but should be.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That is if the insurance company doesn't find any reason to deny the claim.

Not sure how those things work, and I know there are issues. I also know wife's continuing cancer care (treatment completed in Canada, next year we moved to US) was no issue at all. I don't know if part of that is because of affordable care act or what, but there has been a few hundred thousand in followup care covered (minus the usual crap) without any issue - including final breast reconstruction surgery.
No expert on the system by any means, but it has been outstanding care for our family - but I know it isn't for all individuals/families.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

C’mon man, this is an extremely misleading take. If you truly do live in the US, you’re either not educated about the health care options, or you’re purposely making it seem worse than it is. In no way am I saying the system works, doesn’t need improvement, or is fair, but I strongly disagree with the way you’re spinning this.

If you get laid off from work, you have the ability to continue on your normal health plan through COBRA (a federal law) for 18 months after you are laid off. You have 60 days after being laid off to decide if you would like to elect into that plan via COBRA or purchase a health care plan on the marketplace. Now COBRA is generally much more expensive than a marketplace health plan, but you have 60 days to elect into it, and the coverage is retro-active. So even if you had a medical issue during that 60 day election period, but haven’t elected into COBRA, you are able to then elect in after the fact and your medical event would be covered. Generally though, people will take the 60 days to shop around and pick a plan in the marketplace that makes sense for them and go with that.

Again, there are a lot of issues with the system, but you making it seem like once you’re laid off, you’re immediately SOL with no health insurance and can go bankrupt right away if something happens is extremely misleading.

That's not what I said.
If your employment is terminated you are no longer insured. You can choose to pay the coverage you had - at around $2k per month, but can push those payments and then opt out - as long as you don't use it during that period, 60 days. I wonder how many people have the means at that time to shell out for insurance? So they operate as uninsured until they find new employment, with those 60 days as fallback. Just didn't write a novel on the subject - just said insurance for 60% of Americans is tied to employment.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

That's not what I said.
If your employment is terminated you are no longer insured. You can choose to pay the coverage you had - at around $2k per month, but can push those payments and then opt out - as long as you don't use it during that period, 60 days. I wonder how many people have the means at that time to shell out for insurance? So they operate as uninsured until they find new employment, with those 60 or days as backup. Just didn't write a novel on the subject - just said insurance for 60% of Americans is tied to employment.

Again, misleading. This is not how things would play out.

If you got laid off, you would use the 60 days to look at marketplace plans, which in a state like CO are in the $300/month range (for a single person) and if you are a low income earner, you likely qualify for Medicaid or a reduced monthly premium. If you didn’t have any medical events over those 60 days, you would elect into your marketplace/Medicaid plan. If you did have a medical event, then you’d probably elect COBRA, then opt out and go with a marketplace plan.

You would never be “uninsured”. If something happens, you go with COBRA retro-actively. If something doesn’t happen, you go with a marketplace plan/Medicaid.

[Dion]

I suspect that ketchup is hitting the walls in Mara Lago

Trump was dealt a pair of legal blows on Thursday evening, with the Supreme Court declining to delay his sentencing in Manhattan — meaning he'll return to the Oval Office as a convicted felon — and an appeals court rejecting an emergency request to block the release of special counsel Jack Smith's much-anticipated reported.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/politics/g...de017210&ei=83

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by GGG

The text you “quoted”. Does not appear found on that site. So where do those quotes come from?

Ok dude, you aren't digging enough.

And for all the MEL USES CHATGPT FAN BOYS out there...you know where chatgpt gets its info from right? It's a internet search engine that can somewhat maintain a conversation with you.

So anyone can search the internet or read something in a book thats now on the internet and chatgpt will pick it up.

I used chatgpt in the AI thread, that's it, that's all....it is an AI thread, figured why not


Lots of L dished out here.
I will take the DUB

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

When comparing Canada and US taxes, this cost should be added to any comparison to make it even. It never is, but should be.

Payroll deduction is about $500/month.
More money, but how much more than group insurance at workplaces in Canada that covers vision, dental, rx?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Ok dude, you aren't digging enough.

And for all the MEL USES CHATGPT FAN BOYS out there...you know where chatgpt gets its info from right? It's a internet search engine that can somewhat maintain a conversation with you.

So anyone can search the internet or read something in a book thats now on the internet and chatgpt will pick it up.

I used chatgpt in the AI thread, that's it, that's all....it is an AI thread, figured why not


Lots of L dished out here.
I will take the DUB

I see a lot of arrogant and condescending remarks from you Mel. Don't expect anyone to take you serious with remarks like that. Just saying.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Dion

I see a lot of arrogant and condescending remarks from you Mel. Don't expect anyone to take you serious with remarks like that. Just saying.

I agree, but when in rome....

For you Dion i will be on my best behavior going forward.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Payroll deduction is about $500/month.
More money, but how much more than group insurance at workplaces in Canada that covers vision, dental, rx?

True, don't remember.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I agree, but when in rome....

For you Dion i will be on my best behavior going forward.

People have been engaging with you pretty decently when you haven’t been acting like a twit.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Wormius

People have been engaging with you pretty decently when you haven’t been acting like a twit.

Make MelBridgeman Great Again!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Again, misleading. This is not how things would play out.

If you got laid off, you would use the 60 days to look at marketplace plans, which in a state like CO are in the $300/month range (for a single person) and if you are a low income earner, you likely qualify for Medicaid or a reduced monthly premium. If you didn’t have any medical events over those 60 days, you would elect into your marketplace/Medicaid plan. If you did have a medical event, then you’d probably elect COBRA, then opt out and go with a marketplace plan.

You would never be “uninsured”. If something happens, you go with COBRA retro-actively. If something doesn’t happen, you go with a marketplace plan/Medicaid.

If I get laid off, I'm spending my next 60 days looking for work so I can be insured again, and not going through the ridiculous paperwork and administrative nightmare that you just described.

Besides, how many people even know about the options you just described? I can probably count them on one hand, which is sort of the issue. When you obfusticate the path nobody will take it.

The system is needlessly complex, expensive, and difficult to navigate.

This isn't even getting into the fact that once you're insured you're still hit with co-pays, deductibles, or even denial of coverage that you're entitled to. Then you have to pay legal bills just to fight for the coverage that you're owed by law. This is why even if you're covered, but have low income, you're not using your coverage unless it's life or death. This is what leads to early deaths and poor health overall: Delayed or obstructed care. It's criminal.

Nah man, the whole thing is bull####. It doesn't work to actually address health concerns in a proactive and cost effective way (prevention is far cheaper than reactive emergency care), it has ridiculously high administration costs that don't directly benefit people's health, and it works to create a permanent underclass.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Ok dude, you aren't digging enough.

And for all the MEL USES CHATGPT FAN BOYS out there...you know where chatgpt gets its info from right? It's a internet search engine that can somewhat maintain a conversation with you.

So anyone can search the internet or read something in a book thats now on the internet and chatgpt will pick it up.

I used chatgpt in the AI thread, that's it, that's all....it is an AI thread, figured why not


Lots of L dished out here.
I will take the DUB

Chat GPT is often erroneous. Like more than half the time according to this Purdue study.

https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3613904.3642596

I mean, for you, being wrong only 52% of the time might be an improvement in your win percentage, but I'd be cautious about handing out "L's" anytime soon using Chat GPT.

God, you're such an insufferable wanker.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Lots of L dished out here.
I will take the DUB

My goodness, is 2007 your join date or birthdate? Just try to be a little adult. Ain't even asking you to act your 50+ age, 25-30 wound be nice. L's? Dub? Yeesh.