Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Cappy

The actual costs of these projects were definitely debilitating to several of the proposals.

Kinder Morgan's original estimate was $7 billion for TMX. At the end of the day it cost 30 billion - paid for by the Canadian government.

I think it was even worse. If I recall it was budgeted at $4.5 billion from KM and will most likely exceed $40 billion or more when it's all finalized.

I will admit that I doubt it would have been built for $4.5 from KM due to costs, Covid, inflation and other things that were global in nature but I highly doubt they would have paid anywhere near what the government would have either.

There is such a large amount of fraud in that project that it's not even funny. A lot of people who had no business getting rich, got rich

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Jeebus, Northern Gateway and Energy East not being completed had nothing to do with the feds (who approved both). Northern Gateway was opposed by BC and Aboriginal groups. Enbridge did a quiet shutdown of the project over a couple years.

And Energy East was shut down by TC Energy because the numbers didn't work.

I thought Northern Gateway was killed by the tanker moratorium.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SebC

I thought Northern Gateway was killed by the tanker moratorium.

It was dead before that happened. I suppose it was the final nail.

But the moratorium was proper anyway. And Enbridge has a horrible record so it probably was a good thing it didn't proceed.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I see this. I could be wrong, but I am interested if this current scenario applies. CUSMA is currently in force, and may prevent us from applying new tariffs without a bill. But, I misunderstood, the governor in council does have ability to apply tariffs without a bill, I am just not sure if the existing CUSMA, which is included in the customs tariffs act: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/.../FullText.html prevents us from applying new tariffs without modifying the act.

Without legislature, we would not be able to modify the act.

If Trump is applying tariffs it is in contravention of CUSMA. Presumably we have laws in place for consequences if that happens.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But the moratorium was proper anyway.

Sincerely, why?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SebC

Sincerely, why?

Because it's an ecologically sensitive area which was being decimated.

But on topic, the Moratorium wasn't even law until 2019. It also wasn't a bill by the Environment Minister - it was intriduced by Transport Minister Marc Garneau.

And the moratorium wasn't a new concept anyway. No tankers had been running there anyway historically, and BC had never allowed them:

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magaz...y-on-its-side/

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Goriders

scaring away foreign investment via project uncertainty. All of which they were successful in achieving. Not to the benefit of Canada. This will be reversed under the next government.

Nothing like providing certainty by... checks notes...reversing things a previous government implemented.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by SebC

If Trump is applying tariffs it is in contravention of CUSMA. Presumably we have laws in place for consequences if that happens.

It signals the end of CUSMA

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It signals the end of CUSMA

For one country. Are we able to act without it? Practically, we may be. But I'm curious if this would expose the people who did so to legal prosecution by a future government or something...

[burn_this_city]

There should be a national inquiry into the TMX project and where the money went.

[rubecube]

I actually sort of think it makes sense for Singh to bring down the government when parliament resumes, but he should at least publicly see if he can get PP to commit to leaving dental care and health care alone. PP is so thirsty to win this election that he'll probably say whatever he needs to to bring down the government before the Liberals can effectively install a new leader.

Even if that commitment means nothing in the wrong, because we all know PP has corporate masters to serve, it gets him on record and gives the NDP/Liberals ammo to hammer him on going forward.

Plus it also probably gives Singh his best shot at becoming official opposition.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I actually sort of think it makes sense for Singh to bring down the government when parliament resumes, but he should at least publicly see if he can get PP to commit to leaving dental care and health care alone. PP is so thirsty to win this election that he'll probably say whatever he needs to to bring down the government before the Liberals can effectively install a new leader.

Even if that commitment means nothing in the wrong, because we all know PP has corporate masters to serve, it gets him on record and gives the NDP/Liberals ammo to hammer him on going forward.

Plus it also probably gives Singh his best shot at becoming official opposition.

I don’t see the CPC making a deal with the NDP.

As far as the NDP being the opposition, in my eyes, they should have voted down the government a while ago and forced an election. Definitely a tactical error marrying up with the Liberals as long as they did, especially when you could see the government popularity plummeting.

So now they have to try and distance themselves from the Liberals, and show that they can be a viable alternative. Propping up the Liberals for any longer is not how they will achieve that goal.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Goriders

The numbers don’t work because of the hurdles they put in place.

It was a conscious effort by the current regime to neuter the energy industry by taking away the expansion of market access and infrastructure as well as scaring away foreign investment via project uncertainty. All of which they were successful in achieving. Not to the benefit of Canada. This will be reversed under the next government.

When you have ideologues running federal portfolios you have a 50% chance that they will sabotage their area of responsibility. What did everyone think would happen when an ex member of greenpeace was put in charge of decision making over energy projects. What a horrible decision that was.

I wonder how many billions of dollars our environment minister cost Canada in GDP over the last decade? Wonder if he could pay us back for it.

You don't actually know what you are talking about. I'm not going to hold your hand, so you can go find the news articles yourself, but commercially it did not make sense. Alberta did not have enough production capacity to fill all the planned pipelines, including TMX and more importantly for TC, KXL, which financially was a far better bet, and hadn't been dragged into the anti pipeline talk at that point, where EE had challenges in QC. So they abandoned the EE line, as at that point it was conceptual, and KXL had the plans in the works. Planning and building a pipeline is a massive financial investment, so you want to get it right. If you have issues with EE, take it up with the business community and their profit driven motives, and stop blaming Canadian governments.


OK, can we please move on from this false history forever, now? Please?

[Torture]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I actually sort of think it makes sense for Singh to bring down the government when parliament resumes, but he should at least publicly see if he can get PP to commit to leaving dental care and health care alone. PP is so thirsty to win this election that he'll probably say whatever he needs to to bring down the government before the Liberals can effectively install a new leader.

Even if that commitment means nothing in the wrong, because we all know PP has corporate masters to serve, it gets him on record and gives the NDP/Liberals ammo to hammer him on going forward.

Plus it also probably gives Singh his best shot at becoming official opposition.

It'll never happen, but IMO NDP should consider taking this opportunity to also find a new leader that doesn't have the baggage of being Trudeau's ally. Voters want a change from Trudeau but Singh is too close - despite his recent posturing - and they're going to miss the opportunity.

[Azure]

The comments by Trump are shocking, but at the same time I am surprised he doesn't speak more about the fact that the US has been bailing out Canada for decades with the defence of North America. Fact is our military has gone to shambles and no government has done anything about it, and the joke has always been 'oh the US will protect us.'

Really strange though that it isn't talked about by the US and people in the Trump administration, because they'd actually have a point.

Also, still don't see the economic benefit to the US of merging economies, the dollar, etc.

But, Trump isn't being realistic with this. So I guess I should be thinking illogically as well to see what on earth he is talking about.

The only true subsidy I see is on the military side. Everything else Canada is a massive benefit to the US because of the exchange rate and our natural resources.

[Wormius]

When was the last time US protected Canada. They were a pretty ####ty partner when the 2 Michael’s were kidnapped by China when we did their bidding for them. Really supportive.

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You don't actually know what you are talking about. I'm not going to hold your hand, so you can go find the news articles yourself, but commercially it did not make sense. Alberta did not have enough production capacity to fill all the planned pipelines, including TMX and more importantly for TC, KXL, which financially was a far better bet, and hadn't been dragged into the anti pipeline talk at that point, where EE had challenges in QC. So they abandoned the EE line, as at that point it was conceptual, and KXL had the plans in the works. Planning and building a pipeline is a massive financial investment, so you want to get it right. If you have issues with EE, take it up with the business community and their profit driven motives, and stop blaming Canadian governments.


OK, can we please move on from this false history forever, now? Please?

Hold up. Actually what you're saying doesn't make sense. Of course Alberta didn't have the production capacity to fill all those lines, because they didn't have the export capacity in the first place. Why would an oil company drill a well, just to have it sit shut in and not be able to sell the oil from it due to capacity constraints. Further, with simple supply and demand economics, if you have excess supply (production capacity) and the same demand (export capacity), you're going to drop the price of WCS unnecessarily to the detriment of all Alberta producers. With the 3rd largest oil reserves in the world, you really don't think we could fill the increased export capacity? It's just a matter of drilling more and implementing more EOR methods that make sense at better prices. What you really should be looking at is global demand (demand) vs Canadian export capacity (supply).

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

Hold up. Actually what you're saying doesn't make sense. Of course Alberta didn't have the production capacity to fill all those lines, because they didn't have the export capacity in the first place. Why would an oil company drill a well, just to have it sit shut in and not be able to sell the oil from it due to capacity constraints. Further, with simple supply and demand economics, if you have excess supply (production capacity) and the same demand (export capacity), you're going to drop the price of WCS unnecessarily to the detriment of all Alberta producers. With the 3rd largest oil reserves in the world, you really don't think we could fill the increased export capacity? It's just a matter of drilling more and implementing more EOR methods that make sense at better prices. What you really should be looking at is global demand (demand) vs Canadian export capacity (supply).

Dude, seriously. Go find the news articles. These aren't things I made up. These are things TC said.


Y'all are exhausting.

[Jacks]

Trump would change his tune in a hurry if someone showed him how Canadians vote. Most Conservative voters and a chunk of Liberal voters here are are closer to the Democrats than Republicans, the rest are closer to Bernie Sanders. The current version of the Republicans would get the most right wing Cons and the PPC vote. It would be like adding another California to their elections.

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Dude, seriously. Go find the news articles. These aren't things I made up. These are things TC said.


Y'all are exhausting.

Ok, here are 3 news articles regarding TC's cancellation of Energy East. None of them discuss production capacity issues. At best they reference commodity prices. But in all 3 articles, it's quite apparent the cancellation was because of increased regulatory hurdles.

Is it possible you're misremembering? Or could you please share the articles that you're referring to?

https://globalnews.ca/news/3786888/t...peline-cancel/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tra...east-1.4338227

https://calgaryherald.com/business/e...peline-project