Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[Bonded]

I’m still not convinced this team is too good for a top ten pick. We will see how they play into the deadline but I think they are going to have a real stinker of a stretch soon

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well isn't it all hypothetical? How can you measure that without knowing what deals were offered earlier or later?

Yeah, last year people were mad Zadorov got traded early but happy Lindholm got traded early. Most will just judge it against their expectations on trade returns.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well isn't it all hypothetical? How can you measure that without knowing what deals were offered earlier or later?

Yes, it is all hypothetical. And no, we don't have any data.

But the discussion started with the question posed being: is it worth waiting, on the assumption that waiting means a better return. So the onus is on those proposing that it would. I have asserted all along that the return is likely similar.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Conory set a price for Lindholm last year and Vancouver beat it and early, so he asked other teams if they wanted to up the offer they didn't and he pulled the trigger.

He cand o the same with Andersson. Set the price, some team might wnat to get things done earlier and spend a bit more.

The whole point is that he should be on the market now and see what the offers are and not wait around and see what the team's situation is at the deadline.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The whole point is that he should be on the market now and see what the offers are and not wait around and see what the team's situation is at the deadline.

How do you know he is not?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, it is all hypothetical. And no, we don't have any data.

But the discussion started with the question posed being: is it worth waiting, on the assumption that waiting means a better return. So the onus is on those proposing that it would. I have asserted all along that the return is likely similar.

Why is the onus on the assumption that waiting means a better return?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Conory set a price for Lindholm last year and Vancouver beat it and early, so he asked other teams if they wanted to up the offer they didn't and he pulled the trigger.

He cand o the same with Andersson. Set the price, some team might wnat to get things done earlier and spend a bit more.

The whole point is that he should be on the market now and see what the offers are and not wait around and see what the team's situation is at the deadline.

I suspect this is what he is doing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Why is the onus on the assumption that waiting means a better return?

Because the null, or base hypothesis would be that the returns would be the same. Suggesting the return will be better if they wait, is an assertion, and as such has the onus of needed to be supported.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DJones

At this point we're kinda stuck. I imagine we'll have a hot streak somewhere that keeps us close to 90 points.

Kuzmenko sucks, so unless we trade Rasmus there really isn't anyone to trade.

Unless a huge trade comes along I don't see much changing.

I could see them trading Coleman. 2 years after this and slwoing down a lot one but a really useful guy for a contender.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I suspect this is what he is doing.

For sure. However, I doubt he is keen to act, even if he is satisfied with the return. Hard to pull the trigger when they are 1 pt out of the playoffs.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I suspect this is what he is doing.

And if so, he hasn't got the price he wants yet, and will be better off waiting. The number of possible bidders will increase as it becomes clearer which teams are in contention, and as more teams have enough prorated cap space to take on Andersson's contract. At the moment, 11 teams don't have enough space even with maximum retention.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Do they have a roster freeze during that break? He did mention that as a point that could decide what teams are doing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

And if so, he hasn't got the price he wants yet, and will be better off waiting. The number of possible bidders will increase as it becomes clearer which teams are in contention, and as more teams have enough prorated cap space to take on Andersson's contract. At the moment, 11 teams don't have enough space even with maximum retention.

We don't know if either of the two bolded statements are true.

As I said before, even if he likes the current offers, he may be (and very likely is) reticent of pulling the trigger right now, while they are this close to the playoffs - could be taken very poorly by the players.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Because the null, or base hypothesis would be that the returns would be the same. Suggesting the return will be better if they wait, is an assertion, and as such has the onus of needed to be supported.

I don't know why the onus sits with that side alone. Your premise is the returns won't improve. The opposing view is they could including due to dynamics such as this one offered by Jay:

"At the moment, 11 teams don't have enough space even with maximum retention."

Neither side can prove if they are right or wrong because it's all theoretical.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't know why the onus sits with that side alone. Your premise is the returns won't improve. The opposing view is they could including due to dynamics such as this one offered by Jay:

"At the moment, 11 teams don't have enough space even with maximum retention."

Neither side can prove if they are right or wrong because it's all theoretical.

Jesus Christ, it's a discussion. There is no data. Who cares?

As for the cap space argument, 50% retention would mean he would cost $1M for the remainder of the season. Take out a minimum contract, and all they need room for is about half a million. Every team except TOR has that.

Also, it isn't like salary can't come back in a deal. There isn't a team in the league that couldn't pull off an Andersson deal, easily.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Jesus Christ, it's a discussion. There is no data. Who cares?
.

Well you were the one saying the onus needed to be supported. Not me.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Pretty much every team can take on his contract, and we will have to take some salary back. A fdeal could be made tomorrow.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well you were the one saying the onus needed to be supported. Not me.

I was replying to your comment asking how we can measure the returns, and I simply said, you are the one suggesting they will differ, so it's kind of up to you, if anyone, to demonstrate why. However, I agree that it is all hypothetical, and no one needs to, and it is not worth arguing about. And no one cares.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We don't know if either of the two bolded statements are true.

We've heard from multiple sources how Conroy approaches trades. If he had received an offer that met his requirements, he would have given other teams a chance to raise, then made the trade. It happened fast once the Canucks met his price on Lindholm. For Markstrom, he held on until he got what he wanted, which was considerably more than the rumoured Holtz + 2nd.

So yes, we definitely know the first half of the bolded statement is true. As for the second half, about a third of the teams in the league can't afford to take on Andersson's cap hit even with maximum retention at the moment. Most of those teams are accruing cap space, and most of them are in the playoff picture. It stands to reason that more offers will be incoming as cap space is accrued and the deadline approaches.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Exact same for me.

We're almost at the halfway mark and they are still in a playoff spot. It's getting past the they-can't-keep-this-up stage. May as well embrace a run for the playoffs, though I still don't think they make it. And I DO NOT want to see them spend futures to acquire assets to try, but I am confident that they won't do that.

At this point, that is my only ask of the franchise. Be realistic about this team's ability to compete in the long term. Don't spent assets on short term fixes.