Alex Ovechkin's Goal Scoring Record Chase

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, because the best players in the 80s were working part time jobs.

As for Gretzky shooting muffins, you can't compare eras - the sticks are better, guys are stronger because the training is better, etc. etc.

You can only compare against others in a similar environment.

And if he had the stick technology we have today, they would be less of muffins.

edit: oops replied to wrong post

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think it’s a state of the league issue more than a talent issue. The quality of hockey was a joke when Wayne was running up the score compared to today.

It is a state of the league thing totally. Add in expansion, watered down roster quality, salary cap.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And yet no one else was able to do what he did.

It is impossible to compare eras, there are things for and against each side. Instead, I think the thing to look at is how far ahead of their contemporaries they were. And no one has dominated their era like he did.

Sure, and I doubt anyone ever will.

But not because nobody will ever be as good or better than Wayne Gretzky.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

In 06-07, Ovechkin was already an absolute machine and was 4th in the NHL in goals, with 46. Teemu Selanne had 48. Jaromir Jagr had 123 points. Sakic was 40 years old, and had 100 points.

Selanne was a point per game player until 2011.

Gretzky played with all of those guys, and everyone agrees he was on a different level.

So it’s tough for me to square that with the claims that Gretzky would be anything other than dominant in the modern era. Unless people think there’s been a radical step-change in the NHL since 2011, which I don’t think has been the case.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

I think that the eras thing is overblown a bit. Consider Mario Lemieux was never able to get more than 200 points. He played that same era as Gretzky.

Yet, in the year 2000 he came back to the NHL after three years off, at age 35 immediately rattles off an eight-game scoring streak -- 8 goals, 10 assists, 18 points. Finishes the season with 76 points in 43 games. 1.77 points per game which led the league that season. Top 5:

Mario Lemieux - 1.77 PPG
Jaromir Jagr - 1.49 PPG
Joe Sakic - 1.44 PPG
Peter Forsberg - 1.22 PPG
Ziggy Palffy - 1.22 PPG

Yet, nobody is arguing that Joe Sakic and Peter Forsberg wouldn't be as dominant in today's NHL.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Consider Mario Lemieux was never able to get more than 200 points. He played that same era as Gretzky.

Mario got 199 pts in 76 games in 88-89.
Wayne had 168 pts in 78 games that season.

Your comment is a bit of a cherry pick.

Wayne's 200+ points season were 81-86.

Mario came into the league in 84-85.

Wayne's Career PPG was 1.92.
Mario's Career PPG was 1.88.

Wayne enjoyed the benefit of playing much more in the early 80s.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Really, eh? I have quite a few friends who are Oiler fans and all of them don't want to see Gretzky's record fall. I get it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

I think that the eras thing is overblown a bit. Consider Mario Lemieux was never able to get more than 200 points. He played that same era as Gretzky.

Yet, in the year 2000 he came back to the NHL after three years off, at age 35 immediately rattles off an eight-game scoring streak -- 8 goals, 10 assists, 18 points. Finishes the season with 76 points in 43 games. 1.77 points per game which led the league that season. Top 5:

Mario Lemieux - 1.77 PPG
Jaromir Jagr - 1.49 PPG
Joe Sakic - 1.44 PPG
Peter Forsberg - 1.22 PPG
Ziggy Palffy - 1.22 PPG

Yet, nobody is arguing that Joe Sakic and Peter Forsberg wouldn't be as dominant in today's NHL.

Lemieux probably has the single greatest season ever and would have broken 200 points with his 92-93 season.

69 goals and 160 points in 60 games in a season where he was undergoing treatment for Leukeimia!

He still won the scoring title by 12 points over Pat Lafontaine (148 in 84 games).

And if he doesn't miss 24 games while undergoing cancer treatment then he probably breaks Gretzky's single season goal and points records.

His pace that season was 96 goals and 224 points if he played all 84 games that season.

Gretzky and Lemieux were in a class of their own, and likely would still be in a class of their own. But I would actually argue that Lemieux's size, skating, and skill would actually make his play translate better to the current game than Gretzky would potentially, but both would still be elite

Edit:

In terms of the Lemieux / Gretzky comparisons...from 84/85 (Lemieux rookie season) to 97/98 Gretzky's last season over a p/gp) they were so far beyond everyone else in the NHL.

Gretzky: 1881 points in 1024 games - 1.84 points per game

Lemieux: 1494 point in 746 games - 2.01 points per game

Nobody else eclipsed 1.4 points per game in that time frame.

We will never know but if not for cancer and the back injuries there is a chance that Lemieux would have already surpassed some of Gretzky's career records.

[CroFlames]

Wayne continually praises Mario calling him the greatest of all time.

Also Mario won Olympic gold and Wayne couldn't solve Czechia.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Wayne continually praises Mario calling him the greatest of all time.

Also Mario won Olympic gold and Wayne couldn't solve Czechia.

Well Wayne isn't going to say "I'm the greatest of all time". What do you expect him to say?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well Wayne isn't going to say "I'm the greatest of all time". What do you expect him to say?

"Another glass of wine please!"

[WideReceiver]

“Make me governor of the great state of Canada.”

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well Wayne isn't going to say "I'm the greatest of all time". What do you expect him to say?

I think Wayne believes it. As per SuperMatt's post, Mario was Wayne's peer in every way, and arguably better in some areas.

If he didn't have to battle cancer and the back injury, he's likely neck-and-neck in point/goal totals. Plus, Wayne had the advantage of playing from 79 onwards. And let's be real, dman and goalies in the early 80s were a joke, and that's when Wayne put up his 200 pt seasons.

[troutman]

Mike Bossy is still #1 in goals per game.

[Goriders]

Ovi with another empty netter.

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Lemieux probably has the single greatest season ever and would have broken 200 points with his 92-93 season.

69 goals and 160 points in 60 games in a season where he was undergoing treatment for Leukeimia!

He still won the scoring title by 12 points over Pat Lafontaine (148 in 84 games).

And if he doesn't miss 24 games while undergoing cancer treatment then he probably breaks Gretzky's single season goal and points records.

His pace that season was 96 goals and 224 points if he played all 84 games that season.

Gretzky and Lemieux were in a class of their own, and likely would still be in a class of their own. But I would actually argue that Lemieux's size, skating, and skill would actually make his play translate better to the current game than Gretzky would potentially, but both would still be elite

Edit:

In terms of the Lemieux / Gretzky comparisons...from 84/85 (Lemieux rookie season) to 97/98 Gretzky's last season over a p/gp) they were so far beyond everyone else in the NHL.

Gretzky: 1881 points in 1024 games - 1.84 points per game

Lemieux: 1494 point in 746 games - 2.01 points per game

Nobody else eclipsed 1.4 points per game in that time frame.

We will never know but if not for cancer and the back injuries there is a chance that Lemieux would have already surpassed some of Gretzky's career records.

Mario didn’t have leukaemia

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Mario didn’t have leukaemia

Oh yeah sorry wrong "l"

Lymphoma

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by troutman

Mike Bossy is still #1 in goals per game.

Mike Bossy was only a measly 0.76 goals per game
Samuel Henley was a 1.0 goals per game

[getbak]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Mike Bossy was only a measly 0.76 goals per game
Samuel Henley was a 1.0 goals per game

Patrick Sieloff is the only player in modern NHL history to play more than 1 NHL game and have a career average of 1.0 G/GP.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by getbak

Patrick Sieloff is the only player in modern NHL history to play more than 1 NHL game and have a career average of 1.0 G/GP.

Greatest Goalscorer in NHL History.

Its like being George Costanza, go out when you're on top.

"Thats it! I'm out!"