Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Looch City]

Seems like by resigning, Trudeau has made the country even more divided.

Wtf thanks again Trudeau.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I'll give PP a chance...even if by default. I'm not really seeing any viable alternatives at the moment other than voting Conservative. The NDP stray way too far from me on most policy (although I would like a dental plan!), and for me to consider voting Liberal again, they will to be purged top to bottom. They need a total reset, which I think only comes with an election annihilation.

Sounds like good logic if human rights aren't a dealbreaker for you.

[Cappy]

[chemgear]

"I intend to resign." <> "I resign."

[Wormius]

Well now you can all feel like we did when Jason Kenney “resigned” as premier.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Sounds like good logic if human rights aren't a dealbreaker for you.

Zing, you got me.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I'll give PP a chance...even if by default. I'm not really seeing any viable alternatives at the moment other than voting Conservative. The NDP stray way too far from me on most policy (although I would like a dental plan!), and for me to consider voting Liberal again, they will to be purged top to bottom. They need a total reset, which I think only comes with an election annihilation.

Poilievre is no Peter Lougheed, but the world is trending populist, and it would probably be a benefit for Canada to have someone who's able to operate within that mindset/trend, especially if you want to get anywhere with our neighbours down south. Things went too extreme in one direction, and will most likely go extreme in the other in order to self-correct...but hey, there should be plenty for all of you to argue about in here.

I do think a guy like Carney puts the Liberals back towards some respectability. I'm not sure the world needs another rich banker at the top, especially with his environmental policies, but at least the guy appears to be somewhat competent. Any of the options from the existing government would be a hard no from me.

I don't really see the basis for saying that the Liberals' tenure has been extreme, in a way that will be equally countered by Conservative extremism. They're really not two sides of the same coin (at least based on Conservative rhetoric; their actual policies remain to be seen). The Liberals are dyed in the wool centrist neoliberals, and their policies generally reflected that. They'd give lip service the progressive things, but the only time they actually did anything substantial in that direction was when they were forced to in order to stay in power as a minority government.

Their problem is that they were incompetent. So they were generally incoherent and uninspiring policy wise, and they were completely asleep at the wheel when temporary immigration got way out of control.

But ultimately, they were still centrists and I don't really see how you could characterize much or their tenure as being remotely extreme. People talk about "out of control spending" like we're spending at historic levels, but that's really not backed up by the data. Here's federal spending as a % of GDP and we're currently way below the '80s and '90s and barely above the 2000s and 2010s:

1980s: 21.5% of GDP
1990s: 20.6% of GDP
2000s: 15.5% of GDP
2010s: 14.8% of GDP
Current: 16.2% of GDP

Granted, we don't know how the Conservatives will rule. It's possible they'll be generally centrist as well when it comes to actual policy. But their current rhetoric is fundamentally different (and I'd argue far more dangerous) than the Liberals when they were in the same position in 2015, so I wouldn't assume they'll moderate much.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I don't really see the basis for saying that the Liberals' tenure has been extreme, in a way that will be equally countered by Conservative extremism. They're really not two sides of the same coin (at least based on Conservative rhetoric; their actual policies remain to be seen). The Liberals are dyed in the wool centrist neoliberals, and their policies generally reflected that. They'd give lip service the progressive things, but the only time they actually did anything substantial in that direction was when they were forced to in order to stay in power as a minority government.

Yeah, it's hard to take anyone seriously who calls the Liberals and NDP "extreme" vs. this iteration of the CPC. What exactly are their extremist policies that border on say the anti-trans rhetoric the CPC employs?

[Monahammer]

extremely incompetent and corrupt, but I agree that politically it hasn't been extreme at all. If anything they could probably have served themselves more by being a bit more extreme with their intentions.

[curves2000]

I am still shocked that people think Freeland has an actual chance at being elected Leader and actually winning an election. I even think someone like Leblanc is clearly in need of medical attention in the brain. Trudeau's best buddy thinks he is going to be the guy to lead Canada? Outside of potentially being PM for 5 minutes, why does he think he would actually be a good choice? Joly? Attractive without a doubt but is there any policy or file that she has done a good job with? Champagne is an interesting cat but it's just bad timing for this guy.

Carney is still the guy who should win but he may have pushback from people internally cause he will highlight how beyond pathetic and useless the Liberals were in economic management. The other question marks with Carney is how well of a retail politician he can be? He is brilliant without a doubt and has economic clout and an a CV like no other but can he really battle?

The other concern/positive (depends who you ask) with Carney is on how he views the environment and the path forward. He has a very aggressive view on where things are going with clean tech/power generation and net zero emissions target. His investment views on where capital is flowing and the net effect on where technology is headed are great from a podcast/interview perspective, but how does it really play out to your average person who literally is just trying to work and pay their bills. People always claim to be in favor of a lot of serious causes and climate change is one of them but when push coms to shove, the day to day life takes over and things go onto the back burner.

Hold onto your butts, we got a wild ride ahead

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I'll give PP a chance...even if by default. I'm not really seeing any viable alternatives at the moment other than voting Conservative. The NDP stray way too far from me on most policy (although I would like a dental plan!), and for me to consider voting Liberal again, they will to be purged top to bottom. They need a total reset, which I think only comes with an election annihilation.

Poilievre is no Peter Lougheed, but the world is trending populist, and it would probably be a benefit for Canada to have someone who's able to operate within that mindset/trend, especially if you want to get anywhere with our neighbours down south. Things went too extreme in one direction, and will most likely go extreme in the other in order to self-correct...but hey, there should be plenty for all of you to argue about in here.

I do think a guy like Carney puts the Liberals back towards some respectability. I'm not sure the world needs another rich banker at the top, especially with his environmental policies, but at least the guy appears to be somewhat competent. Any of the options from the existing government would be a hard no from me.

Populism doesn't work well. But I'm interested to know how you think PP will be better than Carney on the environment.

Poiliviere is a pandering politician with no real principles except winning an election without actually having program ideas. Every one of his slogans has a huge "and then what?" or "how, exactly" attached to it. "Axe the Tax" - and then what?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Populism doesn't work well. But I'm interested to know how you think PP will be better than Carney on the environment.

Poiliviere is a pandering politician with no real principles except winning an election without actually having program ideas. Every one of his slogans has a huge "and then what?" or "how, exactly" attached to it. "Axe the Tax" - and then what?

Yeah, I see PP as closer to Danielle Smith/Trump than to a Harper or Kenney type. I think he's much more likely to reject pragmatism in order to throw red meat to his base.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

extremely incompetent and corrupt, but I agree that politically it hasn't been extreme at all. If anything they could probably have served themselves more by being a bit more extreme with their intentions.

thats a pretty fair assessment in my opinion.

It's so long ago now, but the SNC Lavalin affair was the kick off. Some of the corruption allegations, to me, are overblown but still unacceptable to any degree.

Losing Morneau was a blow to the more moderate wing of the party.

COVID was a huge blow to any government and it's tough to judge management and spending to past PMs; and as Opendoor has stated countless times, that critique is overblown.

But things like immigration, the government was far to slow to deal with the issue and call for limits from most.

I was never a fan of Trudeau - i think you would be hard pressed to find someone here - but my politics more closely align to moderate (L)iberal parties of the past - which in some ways does intersect with CPC candidates every so often - O'Toole vs Trudeau for example.

But PP was pretty clear in his Jordan Peterson interview. He isn't moving to the center to capture my vote. He's expecting everyone to move his way, and most people will next election given the liberal's over-extended stay and current popularity.

I suspect a new leader will give many hardline liberals a chance to vote for the party again. It won't be as bad as the Campbell election, but it won't be pretty

[activeStick]

Yup, the sooner this happens, the sooner the Liberal Party can fix itself and not be an extreme underdog to an opposition leader like PP. It's a bit like the US and the Democrats in the sense, if you can't even beat Trump (PP), you're doing something wrong.

[undercoverbrother]

My pick is Mélanie Joly she is the hottest of the lot.

[dieHARDflameZ]

LOL at all of this. A damn pylon could do a better job than Trudeau. This is addition by subtraction whoever ends up winning the next election.

[Jacks]

https://www.carneyforcanada.ca/

Didn't take long


Edit: looks like it's a satire site

[Fuzz]

So is it going to come down to an election between a Carney and a Clown? Someone grab some candy corn and funnel cakes, gonna be a ride.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

LOL at all of this. A damn pylon could do a better job than Trudeau. This is addition by subtraction whoever ends up winning the next election.

PP says hold my beer.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I suspect a new leader will give many hardline liberals a chance to vote for the party again. It won't be as bad as the Campbell election, but it won't be pretty

I think it will be more John Turner 84 than Kim Campbell 93. Largely because the BQ and reform paties essentially joined the fray and provided additional outlets for angry Conservatives to put a vote.

The key will be if the Liberals permit the next leader to have time from 2025 to 2029 to prep for that election.

That said in today's world...after a 5 year period of right wing populism in Western Democrcies which is happening now. It could swing just as hard the other way by that point in time.