You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Now with 3x more gears...

[Nufy]

Originally Posted by Weitz

A new motor cost like $400 in my furnace. Are high efficient furnace motors that much?

Mine was close to 1K. Ended up replacing the whole thing instead.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's almost like we need government control to prevent companies from doing this sort of thing, as unrestrained capitalism doesn't seem to be doing it. But I guess that would be red tape, and bad, according to most RW politicians.

lol, yeah the government will fix everything.

[Wormius]

Curves - Magic Chef? Midea? WTF? No wonder you have bad experiences with cheap models. I thought you were talking about mid-range or higher range appliances that kicked the bucket prematurely and weren’t reparable. If you’re looking at rock-bottom cheapest and commercial grade what do you expect the outcome to be?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

lol, yeah the government will fix everything.

Well, when my furnace was installed I sure wish the city permitting bureaucracy had made them do it properly instead of signing off on sloppy #### work. They also installed it over a big hole in the concrete which they didn't tell me about, so now I'm trying to get self leveling concrete under it to prevent radon gas getting sucked into my house so I don't get cancer.



So ya, more professional trades, better regulated would be a good thing for consumers, particularly as all these things get more complicated.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I can without a doubt confirm with you that a lot of things in life have significantly reduced in cost compared to many years ago, The cost of air travel is one that a lot of people just can't comprehend. Computers, laptops and other electronic devices. Lot's of things.

When it comes to appliances, my experience as a landlord with appliances is where I get my data from. On the properties where I have space and the ability to have older, more reliable and repairable appliances. I do! On some of my apartment units where smaller stove and fridge is required, I can't as it's hard to find. I am forced into the brand new, cheap, throw away Chinese crap. Magic Chef, Midea etc. They have doubled in price but are effectively 3-5 year fridges. If a minor issue occurs, I try and troubleshoot myself. There is no financial logic to try and call my repair guy cause 1-2 service calls to replace a part may cost $300-500 or even more. It's gotten to the point where it may make sense for me renovate the units for more space to get larger appliances where I can seek out older, refurbished models that last and are repairable.

When it comes to automobiles, it's not that new Honda's and Toyota's won't go to 500k. It's the operating cost associated with getting there is getting higher every year. Servicing cars these days is beyond absurd cost wise.

Your 2006 Toyota is probably a tank. The Honda's and Toyota's from years ago were made completely different. The Japanese part supplier industry was very different which set Japanese automakers apart quality wise. Japanese built cars were in a different quality category than North American built from the same manufacture too. It was very much small companies who produced specific parts. Like everything else these days it's big business and big suppliers have taken over. A lot of parts in modern day Honda's and Toyota's may as well be in entry level Ford's and Kia's.

I don't want to get too off topic but let's look at other "innovations" that really just drastically increase the ARPU for people. People can argue the merits of improvements but fail to realize that these things just actually cost them more. Apple AirPods style headphones, anything dealing with the Gillette Razor and Blade business model from P&G, planned obsolescence with virtually everything. Mattresses with all this foam that will wear out as opposed to metal springs etc.

It's tough to explain but I think people are convinced they are getting better deals in life then they think. Convinced that Rogers/Telus/Bell and Apple gave them some amazing new deal when their financials literally pointed to something else.

When I brought up Proctor and Gamble it's because it's a great illustration with how innovation within business works but consumers are convinced it's better overall for them. Tide laundry detergent is just powder or liquid, that's it. As a result of "innovation" on a simple product, I believe I had read a long time ago that P&G made an extra $15-20 billion in 10 years+. All those pods and fancy jazz pay more per user, per wash, every week for life.

This applies to Crest toothpaste with who knows how many options when the cheapest option does the best. Ads on social media/tv about running dishwashers even half empty since it's better for the environment (LOL) how many ten's of millions in extra Cascade detergent/rinse aid/dishwasher cleaner do they sell with a simple message that people believe?

People can spend their money however they wish but I am convinced that people need to be a lot more diligent with where some basic elements of their money go. Try and buy quality. Look at operating expenses, look at reparability, do homework on products, run some basic numbers. Despite being a landlord for my entire life with coin laundry, I have told friends and family to buy Speedqueen/Huebsch washers and dryers. They are reliable, designed for long term and overall cheaper long term since they are commercial grade. Nobody listens, even family who have them in their own commercial buildings, it's shocking to me. Just continue to buy Costco/Home Depot grade and have them break all the time.

Companies taking more profit doesn’t necessarily mean the consumer pays more than they used to. It’s just that the surplus generated through automation, modern supply chain, and paying less have a portion taken by the consumer.

I’d disagree that commercial grade appliances in a residential setting is a money saving choice. There is no reason to pay for continuous use quality when you use it an hour a day. You keep saying do the math but really do the math. None of the numbers you have brought up back up your suggestion that life cycle costs used to be cheaper.

Yes buying a $1000 machine will be cheaper long term than a $3000 dollar machine and a 10% discount rate.

To your other point of companies developing products under the guise of convenience to increase per cost of things. Absolutely that happens. The kureg being the best example. You don’t have to participate in that. It’s not evidence that goods are more expensive today then they used to be.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Curves - Magic Chef? Midea? WTF? No wonder you have bad experiences with cheap models. I thought you were talking about mid-range or higher range appliances that kicked the bucket prematurely and weren’t reparable. If you’re looking at rock-bottom cheapest and commercial grade what do you expect the outcome to be?

That is for my apartment sized fridges that I buy. Trust me, I know but it's gotten so hard to find apartment sized fridges by traditional quality manufacturers. I have avoided them like the plague but they are winning. Midea has effectively taking over the North American appliance business and buying up various aspects of other manufactures business or doing licensing deals. They are running the show and it's a freight train that is going to be hard to stop. They are getting promoted everywhere like Costco and who knows what will happen in 5 years.

https://www.costco.ca/midea-brand-showcase.html

It's not that the big manufactures like Whirpool, Maytag and others make top notch stuff anymore. It's just sad what has happened.

[Wormius]

Apartment sized fridge from good manufacturers aren’t a rarity. You have just prioritized cost over quality.

[PepsiFree]

For some people, every problem they encounter or think they make more difficult for themselves is actually a societal issue that they are incapable of fighting against.

Makes it easier.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Apartment sized fridge from good manufacturers aren’t a rarity. You have just prioritized cost over quality.

The size I need on specific units I have are hard to find, which is why I have been forced to go with those lower quality brands. Since those fridges are garbage and I am replacing them more often than I should, I am now looking to renovate the kitchen cabinets for larger space to accommodate larger fridges. Other units with more space I have been able to find appropriate appliances for.

As I have been saying in this thread, spending more money on better commercial grade items, buying quality, repairing vs replacing and more in my personal opinion makes more financial sense for a lot of things.

I try flat out to avoid the bad cycle of constantly buying things more often as it doesn't serve people well a lot of times.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by curves2000

The size I need on specific units I have are hard to find, which is why I have been forced to go with those lower quality brands. Since those fridges are garbage and I am replacing them more often than I should, I am now looking to renovate the kitchen cabinets for larger space to accommodate larger fridges. Other units with more space I have been able to find appropriate appliances for.

As I have been saying in this thread, spending more money on better commercial grade items, buying quality, repairing vs replacing and more in my personal opinion makes more financial sense for a lot of things.

I try flat out to avoid the bad cycle of constantly buying things more often as it doesn't serve people well a lot of times.

You’ve been conflating the POS fridges you choose to buy with every other appliance and then say nothing lasts unless you buy commercial grade ones.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well, when my furnace was installed I sure wish the city permitting bureaucracy had made them do it properly instead of signing off on sloppy #### work. They also installed it over a big hole in the concrete which they didn't tell me about, so now I'm trying to get self leveling concrete under it to prevent radon gas getting sucked into my house so I don't get cancer.



So ya, more professional trades, better regulated would be a good thing for consumers, particularly as all these things get more complicated.

Nine of those are the issue we were talking about though? Like the government regulating those kinds of things is completely different to them pushing for repairs instead of replacement.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Wormius

You’ve been conflating the POS fridges you choose to buy with every other appliance and then say nothing lasts unless you buy commercial grade ones.

I think you may be confused as to what I was trying to say. Commercial grade laundry machines like Speed Queen/ Huebsch are like $1500 on the last purchase I made. They are designed to last 25-30 years with heavy use and are extremely reliable and repairable, they are commercial grade. A "quality" similar style machine may run $1000+ from an LG, Samsung, Whirpool etc. A lot of times those machines will last maybe 5-8 years and when they break, it will usually be a part that may be expensive to replace or it won't make financial sense. Electronic components are usually the worst as it's some sensor on some cycle that goes. You buy the same machine and the same thing happens and on and on. It's a bad cycle!

Nobody is putting a commercial grade $15k Sub Zero in a 1 bedroom apartment. I like older, re- conditioned appliances that are repairable with parts availability. I have also had good experience with simpler, newer appliances with simple designs from many years ago like an Amana.


A tailor made suit, an actual tailor made suit that is sewan with horsehair and not glued will last longer than a $500 off the rack suit. A lot of higher end suits that are even more but are not constructed well. If you wear a suit a few times a year, get the cheap suit. If you wear a suit very often, forget the cheaper suit as it's not designed to last.

The same logic applies to clothing, sneakers etc. Outlet store clothing is not the original product 80% off. It's designed usually for an outlet store at lower quality. A proper running shoe from a running store that is $100 will last a hell of a lot longer than a $50 Costco shoe despite being the same brand.

Appliances, landscaping gear, tools and more from Home Depot are not the same products usually. They are designed differently to have the replacement cycle short.

What can I say other than the above is my personal philosophy when it comes to being a consumer. Some see the value in it and others don't.

[Sliver]

Wait just a second. Are you saying invest more up front for higher quality versus buying cheap items of worse quality because the better item will ultimately last longer, be more serviceable and therefore be less expensive and have fewer hassles over the long term?

Surely you have a larger and more insightful point than the most basic and obvious thing literally every human on earth knows since it has taken you half a novel to hunt and peck this self-evident manifesto.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Wait just a second. Are you saying invest more up front for higher quality versus buying cheap items of worse quality because the better item will ultimately last longer, be more serviceable and therefore be less expensive and have fewer hassles over the long term?

Surely you have a larger and more insightful point than the most basic and obvious thing literally every human on earth knows since it has taken you half a novel to hunt and peck this self-evident manifesto.

Yes, and prepare for 29 paragraphs explaining why

[Wormius]

You’re making things difficult for yourself and blaming all of the wrong things for your appliance woes. Lots of appliances can be repaired for reasonable costs, and you don’t need to buy the highest end model or some commercial grade unit. Look at Reliable Parts or Parts Town. Lots of replacement parts are available for fixing even your Magic Chef appliances.

[fotze2]

Can you guys talk about something more interesting than furnaces this is brutal come on Sliver, be better.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Can you guys talk about something more interesting than furnaces this is brutal come on Sliver, be better.

Look, I just need you guys to understand that the Yorx stereo I bought from SAAN is a total piece of junk, so you should all buy a Sony and therefore society is crumbling.

[PepsiFree]

You can hardly blame the man if he’s spending $2000 on cellphones he keeps breaking. How’s he supposed to have any money for proper appliances for those riff raff renters in such a world?

[Dion]

I don't understand the logic of buying cheap appliances that are not going to last or break down. I don't care if it's a rental property, logic dictates the best investment is to buy an appliance that is going to last quite a number of years. Why buy a Lada when you could be driving a Lincoln.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Dion

I don't understand the logic of buying cheap appliances that are not going to last or break down. I don't care if it's a rental property, logic dictates the best investment is to buy an appliance that is going to last quite a number of years. Why buy a Lada when you could be driving a Lincoln.

Pfft...because Ladas will last forever and can be repaired with string and bubble-gum.