2024/2025 Season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Inferno

- Toffoli trade
- Markstrom trade

- The Lindholm trade is mostly rebuild but as much as its' not working out Kuzmenko is still an NHLer. He most likely won't be retained but had things worked out Conroy would probably want to re-sign if his demands were reasonable.
- The Hanifin trade was mostly rebuild but as much I'm not a fan Miromanov but his been with the team all year even if he's not a regular.

Then there's waiver claims like Pachal.

The Zadorov and Tanev trades were full rebuild trades.

So like I said, not full retool but not full rebuild either. He's acquired players who are good enough to play in the NHL now instead of years from now.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree with the conclusion. I look at the actions in the aggregate:

Out: Toffoli, Lindstrom, Hanifin, Tanev, Zadorov, Mangiapane, Markstrom

In: Sharangovich, Bahl, Kuzmenko, Miromanov plus picks and prospects

A retool suggests a desire to remain competitive. You can't take that many good players out of the lineup, and replace them with those 4, and think you're going to remain competitive.

Somehow, the Flames have managed to remain competitive(ish), but I don't think that was Conroy's intention, from those trades.

[Bingo]

Aren't we splitting atoms between two terms that are stapled to teams that need to move assets?

Retool keeps the weak hearted from canceling their season tickets, but whether a GM uses one R word or another is pretty much irrelevant to me.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Somehow, the Flames have managed to remain competitive(ish), but I don't think that was Conroy's intention, from those trades.

Competitive as in good enough to win the Cup, no. But I think he still wants them to be competitive as in trying to make the playoffs even if they end up not making them. He doesn't want to build a culture where losing is ok.

When he used the term "retool on the fly" I completely got what he meant.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Competitive as in good enough to win the Cup, no. But I think he still wants them to be competitive as in trying to make the playoffs even if they end up not making them. He doesn't want to build a culture where losing is ok.

When he used the term "retool on the fly" I completely got what he meant.

Well he certainly would have aimed to get better players if he wants to compete for the playoffs.

When he says compete for the playoffs he’s saying go out and work hard and don’t quit.

You don’t trade your starting goalie for a pick and 24 year old developing dman if your intention is to make 8th place.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

You don’t trade your starting goalie for a pick and 24 year old developing dman if your intention is to make 8th place.

You can if you have a young highly touted goalie waiting for a spot to open up and are looking for a young NHL ready defenseman to replace one of the defenseman you just traded.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Inferno

You can if you have a young highly touted goalie waiting for a spot to open up and are looking for a young NHL ready defenseman to replace one of the defenseman you just traded.

Well trading a proven goalie away and putting 2 unproven guys in net doesn’t scream playoffs to me.

We have 4 1st round picks and 20M in cap space. If he was truly retooling on the fly and trying to make 8th place we would likely have less picks and cap space right now.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Well he certainly would have aimed to get better players if he wants to compete for the playoffs.

When he says compete for the playoffs he’s saying go out and work hard and don’t quit.

You don’t trade your starting goalie for a pick and 24 year old developing dman if your intention is to make 8th place.

True but if the Flames traded Bahl for Markstom tomorrow they would be worse not better. Sometimes things work out better than expected.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by dino7c

True but if the Flames traded Bahl for Markstom tomorrow they would be worse not better. Sometimes things work out better than expected.

I don’t know. Vladar is pretty bad and I think Markstrom would out perform him.

I like all the moves Conroy has made outside that Russian dman.

Bahl is the only now or future piece he brought back.

If he moves picks and makes free agent signings we can revisit this conversation but like mentioned above the word retool was used to appease the ownership and fan base as we rebuild.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Well trading a proven goalie away and putting 2 unproven guys in net doesn’t scream playoffs to me.

It depends on how you view the player. If Conroy thought Wolf was a stud then he would think the team would alteast have a chance even if it didn't end up working out in the end.

Trading Markstrom now just made sense. The team isn't going to be a contender the next two seasons and it gave Wolf a head start at getting more games.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Inferno

It depends on how you view the player. If Conroy thought Wolf was a stud then he would think the team would alteast have a chance even if it didn't end up working out in the end.

Trading Markstrom now just made sense. The team isn't going to be a contender the next two seasons and it gave Wolf a head start and getting more games.

So now you agree that he is rebuilding, and not 'retooling on the fly'

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Competitive as in good enough to win the Cup, no. But I think he still wants them to be competitive as in trying to make the playoffs even if they end up not making them. He doesn't want to build a culture where losing is ok.

When he used the term "retool on the fly" I completely got what he meant.

If they were actually trying to make the playoffs then they wouldn’t have 20 million of cap space. Conroy built a bottom 5ish roster on paper and they are exceeding expectations. Andersson is the only asset he kept that has good value and location flexibility

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Inferno

It depends on how you view the player. If Conroy thought Wolf was a stud then he would think the team would alteast have a chance even if it didn't end up working out in the end.

Trading Markstrom now just made sense. The team isn't going to be a contender the next two seasons and it gave Wolf a head start at getting more games.

When say contender do you mean the cup or playoffs ?

We aren’t going to be a playoff contender for a whole 2 years seems generous. As for a cup that’s a bit out as well. 5 years maybe.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So now you agree that he is rebuilding, and not 'retooling on the fly'

All I said is that I got what Conroy meant. Not that it's the term I would use.

I just don't view every trade he's made as a rebuild trade because it doesn't involve all future assets. There's players involved who are supposed to help the team now.

[MrMike]

No one expected Wolf to be this good right out of the gate. That’s the biggest factor in my opinion.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Bonded

If they were actually trying to make the playoffs then they wouldn’t have 20 million of cap space.

They would if they don't want to take roster spots away from the young players. Unless you're getting rid of someone like Rooney. But that's just one spot.

I think Conroy is being realistic where he knows they're in a tough spot to make the playoffs right now but still wants them compete for one. As I said before, he doesn't want to build a culture where losing is ok.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

When say contender do you mean the cup or playoffs ?

Cup contender.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Inferno

They would if they don't want to take roster spots away from the young players. Unless you're getting rid of someone like Rooney. But that's just one spot.

I think Conroy is being realistic where he knows they're in a tough spot to make the playoffs right now but still wants them compete for one. As I said before, he doesn't want to build a culture where losing is ok.

They don’t keep roster spots open for young players if they are actually trying to make playoffs

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Bonded

They don’t keep roster spots open for young players if they are actually trying to make playoffs

They do if they view those young players as part of their future long term and want them to be those players actually trying to make the playoffs.

[RedHawk12]

I agree with many that say that arguing whether we are "retooling" and "rebuilding" are just semantics.

My main point is this - this team has never accepted losing. It instills compete in all its players from day 1, so that even if we were to lose all of our all-star players, our pure skill if you will, through trade or FA or whatever, the players that take their place will still compete hard, and outperform their expectations, and we become a lunch-pail team that is always in a playoff race, kind of. I personally think this is a good mentality to have, but it also means that, outside of sheer luck, we will never be bad enough to get top-5 picks on purpose.

Given that, the only way we can get truly elite players is to trade for them on the rare occasions they become available, and hoping for some draft luck. Call it the Dallas model or whatever, but this is what we need to do.

When elite players become available, you have to be willing to bite the bullet and trade your Zarys etc.. Again, maybe we don't target Petey specifically, but we cannot have the attitude of a player like Zary being unavailable to acquire such a player.

I'm not commenting on Zary specifically. I'm talking about mindset in rebuilding this team. Signing 5 Zarys to 6M AAV contracts is how you stay in the "mushy middle". Again, we've debated that endlessly, but I'm firmly in the camp that believe we need elite players to win. And you gotta be willing to get it done when one becomes available.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Inferno

They would if they don't want to take roster spots away from the young players. Unless you're getting rid of someone like Rooney. But that's just one spot.

I think Conroy is being realistic where he knows they're in a tough spot to make the playoffs right now but still wants them compete for one. As I said before, he doesn't want to build a culture where losing is ok.

He has 20M in cap space and a lot of picks. If he wanted to he could push them into 8tj with some trades. He’s sitting still.

Again the culture is work hard. Don’t think winning is really the priority for him right now.