Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, Pettersson is a much better player than Cozens, that's why he earns $11.6M. But there is more to it than that.

1) Pettersson costs $11.6M per year and is 26. That's #1C money, and I think he is a flawed #1C.

2) With Huberdeau and Kadri on the books as well, that's using up a lot of cap for 3 guys that are 34, 31 and 26. What kind of core building is that? As Pettersson is entering his prime years, the other guys are sliding out of theirs. There is little on our current roster in the same age/career group as Pettersson - we don't have the pieces to build around him.

3) Cost of acquisition - Pettersson would cost us some young pieces. Do we have some? Yes. Are we in a position to start moving them out? No. We have an old core that needs replacing. We need youth. Acquiring Pettersson pushes out that youth acquisition, meaning that Pettersson himself will be in his 30s before we can build around him.

If you're going to go all in acquiring a guy that is going to make $11.6M for the next 7 years, it has to be the right guy, at the right time. I don't think he's the right guy, and this is definitely NOT the right time.

Point one may be correct, we can agree to disagree on that one. But point two is almost irrelevant, the Flames are awash in cap space. They have no cap concerns for at least 3-4 years. By the time they do Kadri is off the books. As for point 3, if the Flames cannot compete until 2029 or 2030 with Pettersson that would presumably mean in a world without trying to get a number one center via trade the Flames won’t be able to compete until 2032 or 2033. Not sure anyone wants to grind through a 10 year rebuild.

I suspect the Flames could acquire Pettersson and keep 3 out of 4 of their 1st round picks that they have in the next two years and keep 9 out of 10 of their top prospects and throw in Rasmus and get it done. I guess my question would be do people want an 8-10 year rebuild or do they want a 4-5 year rebuild (with 23/24 marking the start of the rebuild). Pettersson definitely makes the latter more likely.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Probably why rebuilding teams don’t make these type of trades. Especially in year 1.

We are already behind the 8 ball now. We need to add young elite talent to the guys like Zary, Coronato and Wolf quickly before they age out as well.

Probably why teams tear it down completely because you are drafting players closer in age range to grow together.

We still have time with the next 2 drafts after this year.

Time to do what in the next 2 drafts?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You keep saying this, but I don't think it's the case at all.

I provided you with the stats to back it up. Across the board his numbers are in decline. He’s making a lot more little mistakes this year as well.

It could be a lot of things. He had a life changing experience in the accident as well. He had a close friend die. People go through things and it impacts performance.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Time to do what in the next 2 drafts?

Be in the mix to pick top 3. Hopefully 1st in 26.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I provided you with the stats to back it up. Across the board his numbers are in decline. He’s making a lot more little mistakes this year as well.

It could be a lot of things. He had a life changing experience in the accident as well. He had a close friend die. People go through things and it impacts performance.

I don't think those stats tell the story and I don't think fans are good at evaluating dmen at all (inclusive of me).

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Coleman also mentioned how having those guys that didn’t want to be here did cause tension in the room and it was much better once they got traded. If we go into next season with Andersson in the same situation you create a distraction.

That's one player vs multiple players. We also don't know if he wants out.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't think those stats tell the story and I don't think fans are good at evaluating dmen at all (inclusive of me).

We can agree to disagree. Overall his numbers are below the team as a whole as well. He had a strong start to the season. Aggressive and making plays and that’s not what I see anymore.

Think we are at 50 corsi he is 47. It’s almost a saw off for xGF and he’s a negative. On the ice for more high danger chances against than for.

I’m not basing everything off numbers. It’s what I’m seeing with him. Settling more for those point shots. He was carrying the puck more earlier in the year.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Be in the mix to pick top 3. Hopefully 1st in 26.

I guess. There are not many great center prospects in the 2026 draft class. If the Flames don’t find one this year in the draft they are probably looking at 2027 or beyond to realistically draft a top line center. If one assumes it takes 4 to 5 years for a drafted player to make an impact at the NHL level that would mean that a center drafted in 2027 would make an impact in 30/31 or 31/32.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Inferno

That's one player vs multiple players. We also don't know if he wants out.

Few points to this. Conroy has been able to get extensions done quickly. Sharangovich and Hanifin. Hanifin walked away but that doesn’t change the fact he agreed to the deal in October. They didn’t negotiate in the summer.

So we have 4 months to sign Andersson if the player wants to be here. If no deal is done by October I suspect he doesn’t want to be here on the team doesn’t want him. Or they don’t like the number. At that point he’s gotta go, Conroy said he isn’t walking guys to free agency.

Ideally the team should make the decision for him and that is we are moving on.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I guess. There are not many great center prospects in the 2026 draft class. If the Flames don’t find one this year in the draft they are probably looking at 2027 or beyond to realistically draft a top line center. If one assumes it takes 4 to 5 years for a drafted player to make an impact at the NHL level that would mean that a center drafted in 2027 would make an impact in 30/31 or 31/32.

I’ll take McKenna lol. It would also be so Flames to miss out on deep center drafts and get an elite winger and build around him.

Iginla
Gaudreau
Tkachuk
McKenna

Welcome to the club.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Few points to this. Conroy has been able to get extensions done quickly. Sharangovich and Hanifin. Hanifin walked away but that doesn’t change the fact he agreed to the deal in October. They didn’t negotiate in the summer.

So we have 4 months to sign Andersson if the player wants to be here. If no deal is done by October I suspect he doesn’t want to be here on the team doesn’t want him. Or they don’t like the number. At that point he’s gotta go, Conroy said he isn’t walking guys to free agency.

Ideally the team should make the decision for him and that is we are moving on.

You suspect, but that doesn't mean it's fact.

But that's not the point I was making. You're bringing up what Coleman said as to why they need to trade him ASAP but he was talking about multiple players having one foot out the door.

It's a lot easier for a team to deal with one player not being signed than 5 or 6 with most of them being reported they either want to be traded or want to test free agency.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

If the Flames are going to give up a bunch of assets for a center you would far rather get a PPG center like Pettersson than Cozens. Pettersson scores at a PPG rate, that is a top 8 center in the league. I would much rather have a guy who is in the top 6.25% of centers in the league than a guy who is the top 47% of the league in terms of scoring.

If Conroy is going center hunting right now I hope he is going big game hunting and going after Pettersson as opposed to grabbing something in the middle of the league.

I would take my chances on Cozens over Pettersson every time. Cozens plays hard, he has a good 200 foot game, and he still has plenty of upside. Pettersson has no give a F meter at all, it's why him and Miller don't get along. When the going gets tough, Pettersson becomes a no show. When he gets told to step up he pouts. I want no part of that guy.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

We can agree to disagree. Overall his numbers are below the team as a whole as well. He had a strong start to the season. Aggressive and making plays and that’s not what I see anymore.

Think we are at 50 corsi he is 47. It’s almost a saw off for xGF and he’s a negative. On the ice for more high danger chances against than for.

I’m not basing everything off numbers. It’s what I’m seeing with him. Settling more for those point shots. He was carrying the puck more earlier in the year.

The issue is that he's slotted wrong, like almost everyone on the team. The Flames don't have good match-ups particularly against number 1 lines. He is ideally a #2 with a proper #1, or a really good #3.

And teams acquiring him won't be doing so as their #1. They have that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Point one may be correct, we can agree to disagree on that one. But point two is almost irrelevant, the Flames are awash in cap space. They have no cap concerns for at least 3-4 years. By the time they do Kadri is off the books. As for point 3, if the Flames cannot compete until 2029 or 2030 with Pettersson that would presumably mean in a world without trying to get a number one center via trade the Flames won’t be able to compete until 2032 or 2033. Not sure anyone wants to grind through a 10 year rebuild.

I suspect the Flames could acquire Pettersson and keep 3 out of 4 of their 1st round picks that they have in the next two years and keep 9 out of 10 of their top prospects and throw in Rasmus and get it done. I guess my question would be do people want an 8-10 year rebuild or do they want a 4-5 year rebuild (with 23/24 marking the start of the rebuild). Pettersson definitely makes the latter more likely.

1) Even if it is a 4-5 year rebuild, Pettersson is 31 and costing $11.6M - hardly ideal (and that's best case)

2) Acquiring Pettersson adds to the propping up of the current team, meaning it is more difficult to acquire the talent the rebuild is trying to acquire. In other words, his presence makes the 4-5 year rebuild less likely to materialize.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The issue is that he's slotted wrong, like almost everyone on the team. The Flames don't have good match-ups particularly against number 1 lines. He is ideally a #2 with a proper #1, or a really good #3.

And teams acquiring him won't be doing so as their #1. They have that.

That’s what makes him our best trade chip. He goes to a contender and they slot him on the 2nd pair and he has a reasonable cap hit for the remainder of this year and next so it’s easy to take on.

A team likely pays up for him. I don’t mean trade him next week. The deadline or a little earlier or the draft.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Inferno

You suspect, but that doesn't mean it's fact.

But that's not the point I was making. You're bringing up what Coleman said as to why they need to trade him ASAP but he was talking about multiple players having one foot out the door.

It's a lot easier for a team to deal with one player not being signed than 5 or 6 with most of them being reported they either want to be traded or want to test free agency.

I didn’t say asap. The deadline or earlier or the draft.

I do

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I didn’t say asap. The deadline or earlier or the draft.

I do

The deadline is in two months. That's pretty much ASAP.

The Flames have two deadlines to figure out what to do with him. Obviously if he has no intention of re-signing you look and see what's out there now but if he's still undecided and he's still part of Conroy's plans for the team it's not an urgent matter.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Point one may be correct, we can agree to disagree on that one. But point two is almost irrelevant, the Flames are awash in cap space. They have no cap concerns for at least 3-4 years. By the time they do Kadri is off the books. As for point 3, if the Flames cannot compete until 2029 or 2030 with Pettersson that would presumably mean in a world without trying to get a number one center via trade the Flames won’t be able to compete until 2032 or 2033. Not sure anyone wants to grind through a 10 year rebuild.

I suspect the Flames could acquire Pettersson and keep 3 out of 4 of their 1st round picks that they have in the next two years and keep 9 out of 10 of their top prospects and throw in Rasmus and get it done. I guess my question would be do people want an 8-10 year rebuild or do they want a 4-5 year rebuild (with 23/24 marking the start of the rebuild). Pettersson definitely makes the latter more likely.

Trading for Pettersson takes out of rebuilding and immediately puts us into a retool mode and quickly. We don’t have much to retool around so keeping those picks would be crucial because we will need to start spending them to get established NHL players to play with him.

You probably need to start pushing for the playoffs next season as well otherwise you are just wasting him during his prime years. So we will have to dip into free agency to fill out the roster with some 30 plus.

So all the cap space you brought up that’s quickly gone. We haven’t signed Zary, Coronato or Wolf and will have to nickel and dime them.

We start that vicious cycle again.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Inferno

The deadline is in two months. That's pretty much ASAP.

The Flames have two deadlines to figure out what to do with him. Obviously if he has no intention of re-signing you look and see what's out there now but if he's still undecided and he's still part of Conroy's plans for the team it's not an urgent matter.

Calgary should be controlling the timeline not Andersson deciding if he wants to be here. That’s been my whole point. He should not be in our long term plans so we should look at dealing him and listen to offers soon.

It’s time we do what’s best for us and not get attached to players and hand out retirement contracts.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I would take my chances on Cozens over Pettersson every time. Cozens plays hard, he has a good 200 foot game, and he still has plenty of upside. Pettersson has no give a F meter at all, it's why him and Miller don't get along. When the going gets tough, Pettersson becomes a no show. When he gets told to step up he pouts. I want no part of that guy.

Pettersson has been in the playoffs twice in his life and was dominant one time and had a weak playoffs the second time.

JT miller has been in the playoffs 8 times. I won’t count the first time because he was a rookie who did not even play a full season. But the other 7 times he was a no show 5 times and has had two good playoffs. Most of the time when the going gets tough JT has been a no show.

It would definitely be great if the Canucks traded Pettersson to anyone because the Canucks almost certainly lose that trade.