Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by blender

Are you taking the piss?
It can obviously get much worse.
One of my biggest complaints about the current discourse is the notion being put forward that Canada is broken, things are so bad, Trudeau is dancing with the Swifties while Ottawa burns.
Everyone banging on about needing a "serious" government should start being serious themselves instead of making things up.

Things are bad. If things were good the Conservatives wouldn't be trending to a majority government. Sure things can get worse. They can also get better or stay the same. Canadians appear ready to test change over what they know and are now tired of.

[TheIronMaiden]

Maybe life has been kinder to me than most, but I am far from thinking Canada is broken, or even to say that things are especially bad.

Sure it's high time for a change in government, and yes, housing availability is a concern, but to me it is more that things are not as peachy as they were between 1990-2019. I know it is difficult to accept, but these were abnormally, and unsustainably prosperous years.

We are nowhere near the awful run between 1914-1945. Until that time stability is more important than sweeping changes.

[Jason14h]

I hope we’re doing better then 110 years ago in a macro sense

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I hope we’re doing better then 110 years ago in a macro sense

I know that you're being facetious, but really? How else could you contextualize what is bad or broken. We face much easier problems than our grandparents did. 110 years is not a long time in any historical sense, it comparatively makes much more sense than comparing to 5 years ago.

[opendoor]

It'll be interesting to see how long the honeymoon for the Conservatives lasts if (or more like when) they can't deliver on their biggest promises.

One of the pitfalls of blaming every problem under the sun (high housing costs, income inequality, etc.) on the federal government and promising easy solutions that you're setting yourself up for failure when you can't fix those things.

And there's not a lot of reason to think that they'll actually be able to deliver on the major stuff, particularly when they can't even identify the problem. Poilivere blames rising costs on "money printing" and promises to curb that when he comes to power, despite growth in money supply being pretty moderate by historical standards (even including the COVID years). Unless he wants to induce deflation or something, there really isn't much they can do there.

He also blames high housing costs on regulations, arguing that 60% of the cost of a new residence in Vancouver (about $1.3M) is due to government regulations. Which is absurd on the face of it, but even more ridiculous when you dig into the details. To arrive that that number, they have estimated the cost of construction based on the building permit value reported by the municipality, which normally has little to no basis in reality; it's just a value to determine the cost of the permit. So if the permit value is based on $200/sq ft and actual costs are $500/sq ft, then they claim that 60% of the construction cost was inflated due to the government.

For instance, the study he references on that (from the CD Howe Institute) notes that Regina has a huge gap between cost to build and market price, while Saskatoon does not. They posit that that's because Regina has tons of regulation that Saskatoon does not. But the more simple (and correct) explanation is that Saskatoon's permit values are based on actual construction values submitted by the applicant, whereas Regina just uses a flat $96/sq ft for its permit values, which has no relevance to actual costs; it's just a value used to calculate the fee. So obviously Regina's permit values are far more out of whack from the actual selling price than Saskatoon's, but it has nothing to do with regulation.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Maybe life has been kinder to me than most, but I am far from thinking Canada is broken, or even to say that things are especially bad.

Sure it's high time for a change in government, and yes, housing availability is a concern, but to me it is more that things are not as peachy as they were between 1990-2019. I know it is difficult to accept, but these were abnormally, and unsustainably prosperous years.

We are nowhere near the awful run between 1914-1945. Until that time stability is more important than sweeping changes.

I mean, I think most people generally believe that things should get better generation by generation over time. And that makes sense, because each subsequent generation can benefit from the technology, learnings, and capital assets of the previous generation. While some things wear out or are obsolete, having the national railways/highways/airports/cell networks/pipelines/fibre optics already built is a big win. Just from that perspective things should be getting better every decade over time.

And that has largely been true, with some exceptions, but mostly it has been. Recent massive run-ups in housing prices are a huge problem, because the discontent that occurs when people don't think their lives are getting better is a real societal issue.

I'm not saying PP will fix all of that, at all. But I think it's pretty understandable why people are looking for change without necessarily needing to resort to hyperbole that "omg CAnaDA Is BroKEn!!:"

[MelBridgeman]

Axe the tax
Build the homes
Fix the budget
Stop the crime

It's common sense. Let's bring it home!

[MacDaddy77]

^ I'm all for it but how?

It's easy to say these can be done and eliminating the tax is one step. We are an energy rich country but are constrained by our confederacy where each province is a fiefdom.

The regulatory requirements in Canada are what hold us back and no party will be able to solve that to push an energy rich country.

What should be happening is pushing for tidewater access to St. Laurence River & Hudsons bay, accelerated approvals for LNG on BC west coast and get more exports of our resources to the world but we can never get alignment as a country from all the independent parties along the way.

A huge energy corridor is what this country needs.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I mean, I think most people generally believe that things should get better generation by generation over time. And that makes sense, because each subsequent generation can benefit from the technology, learnings, and capital assets of the previous generation. While some things wear out or are obsolete, having the national railways/highways/airports/cell networks/pipelines/fibre optics already built is a big win. Just from that perspective things should be getting better every decade over time.

And that has largely been true, with some exceptions, but mostly it has been. Recent massive run-ups in housing prices are a huge problem, because the discontent that occurs when people don't think their lives are getting better is a real societal issue.

I'm not saying PP will fix all of that, at all. But I think it's pretty understandable why people are looking for change without necessarily needing to resort to hyperbole that "omg CAnaDA Is BroKEn!!:"

I agree with your point that recently ( in the last 90 years) there is a belief that thing always get better. This is tied to a historical methodology that focused on "progress" as a societal objective. You're right to point out technology and science as indicators of this progress as an object of study. No less, when we look through a broader lens, it because clear that this is a flawed methodology. This is why the [Lounge Duree is an important methodology to calibrate these discussions.

For example, the technological progress of the 1960s- 1980s was no doubt a material benefit to euro-Canadians. These material benefits did not disrupt or improve long term historical trends experienced by LGBTQ or Indigenous peoples.

In general are things worse or better is not entirely a useful historical question. These metrics are too narrow or subjective. Instead a useful question could be, is power (knowledge) more evenly distributed? or are the mechanisms of power more or less violent than they were. again to answer these questions on a micro scale is not useful as they can be best understood over periods of decades if not centuries. Though as with most things, methodology is not at the forefront of peoples minds when they feel like they've been slighted, and certainly people under the age of 30 know that they missed out on affordable housing and they are not happy about it.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

For all the crap he takes, Trudeau handled this one as well as he could.

This was a pure set up, by a woman known in the area as bat crap crazy, anti-trans, anti-vax anti-everything loon. I guess she was going for likes or retweets or whatever, but it just showed the gross side of society now.

The guy was on holidays and his son was right there. You have to be a pretty terrible person to do this, take video of it, post it, and think it was funny or something. If anything, we should feel sad for this woman and her mental health. This should not be normal in society, at all.

Again, I am way behind in this thread but this video is a stark reminder of the difference between Canada and the US. Can you envision walking up to the President in a parking lot and shaking his hand? No chance. (Nevermind a President of the US that is able to ski. That is beyond the pale. Obama is probably the only sitting President in history that could do that while in office.)

It also raises the issue of where the #### was his security detail? They are not even in the frame and she is close enough to shake his hand? Probably not wise regardless of the country it is in.

Connor's girlfriend was better security on the beer run.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I would actually be interested to see an objective breakdown of the pros and cons if Canada and the U.S. unified from both country's perspectives.

There are several different types of unions that stop short of annexation. For example, Scotland is unified with England in the United Kingdom, but they are not annexed by England and have their own parliament and law making abilities. Or the EU example as also pointed out where countries maintain their sovereignty buy unify on some policies.

I am not saying I would be in favour of a Canadian-American union, but I think the discussion is interesting anyway.

A friend and I were discussing this. The 30% (at least) increase in the value of our paycheques going forward makes a pretty compelling argument out of the gates. Not having to worry about being attacked for our water/oil is also a strong argument. Just a good ol' fashioned plunderin but at least we could make some money off that!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Maybe life has been kinder to me than most, but I am far from thinking Canada is broken, or even to say that things are especially bad.

Sure it's high time for a change in government, and yes, housing availability is a concern, but to me it is more that things are not as peachy as they were between 1990-2019. I know it is difficult to accept, but these were abnormally, and unsustainably prosperous years.

We are nowhere near the awful run between 1914-1945. Until that time stability is more important than sweeping changes.

I've been at home sick for a few days and so I'm watching Disaster movies. Hurricanes, Meteors, Pandemics, Zombies, you name it.

Whenever they show the 'tragedy map' Canada is always doing just fine.

"This meteor is going to wipe out the Global population! Well...except Canada, they seem like they'll be alright."

"This Pandemic is spreading across the Globe! Its going to wipe everything out...except Canada apparently. They seem to be doing just peachy."

Zombie Apocalypse? Not in Canada. Too cold here for zombies. Plus theres nowhere for them to live.

Canada is doing okay!

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

^ I'm all for it but how?

It's easy to say these can be done and eliminating the tax is one step. We are an energy rich country but are constrained by our confederacy where each province is a fiefdom.

The regulatory requirements in Canada are what hold us back and no party will be able to solve that to push an energy rich country.

What should be happening is pushing for tidewater access to St. Laurence River & Hudsons bay, accelerated approvals for LNG on BC west coast and get more exports of our resources to the world but we can never get alignment as a country from all the independent parties along the way.

A huge energy corridor is what this country needs.

Not having an eco-terrorist dictating energy policy might be a good start.

[MelBridgeman]

That alone makes it worth it. Lock him up!

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Not having an eco-terrorist dictating energy policy might be a good start.

As opposed to when we have a sitting prime minister from energy rich Alberta with a majority government for 4 years?

I'm hopeful we can stop wasting our resources and utilize the profits for the social programs needed to move forward with the growing population.

I'll be voting conservative with this hope but I'm skeptical anything will happen.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Titan2

A friend and I were discussing this. The 30% (at least) increase in the value of our paycheques going forward makes a pretty compelling argument out of the gates. Not having to worry about being attacked for our water/oil is also a strong argument. Just a good ol' fashioned plunderin but at least we could make some money off that!

Why would you expect to get any kind of pay increase in that scenario? Salaries don't just magically rise because they're denominated in USD. As always, they'd still be based on the supply/demand in a given region.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Why would you expect to get any kind of pay increase in that scenario? Salaries don't just magically rise because they're denominated in USD. As always, they'd still be based on the supply/demand in a given region.

Well, a lot of USA jobs pay more than Canadian for same work. If people suddenly became American it makes movement much easier to those other places and salaries would have to adjust. For example an O&G engineer in the USA makes more than a Canadian, not even taking in the currency difference. Dumb hypothetical, but still.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Why would you expect to get any kind of pay increase in that scenario? Salaries don't just magically rise because they're denominated in USD. As always, they'd still be based on the supply/demand in a given region.

Presumably, we adopt the USD. I get the same paycheque but in USD not CAD. I win.

Or it was just a tongue in cheek comment. You choose.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I hope we’re doing better then 110 years ago in a macro sense

Glass half full

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Axe the tax
Build the homes
Fix the budget
Stop the crime

It's common sense. Let's bring it home!

The new koolaid!!