[News] Puljujarvi on waivers. Update: Clears

[Kipper_3434]

Nm.

[Junglist]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Duehr and Klapka don’t even make half of what Kuzmenko makes if you combine their salaries; play wise sure maybe it’s a wash, but klapka and Duehr are much closer to earning what they’re getting paid than Kuzmenko is; leagues apart.

I was referring to Puljujarvi.

[Locke]

Man...clearing waivers has to be the worst feeling.

Is Pittsburgh's AHL affiliate still in Scranton? Coached by Michael Scott.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Locke

Man...clearing waivers has to be the worst feeling.

Is Pittsburgh's AHL affiliate still in Scranton? Coached by Michael Scott.

Plus Stanley for a mentor on eating pizza.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Locke

Man...clearing waivers has to be the worst feeling.

Is Pittsburgh's AHL affiliate still in Scranton? Coached by Michael Scott.

Wilkes Barre has been their AHL team for about 25 years now.

[Erick Estrada]

Maybe there's something in the water in Finland. Some of the best Finnish prospects have been kind of awkward fits in the NHL. Even Kipper was a different cat but being a goaltender it makes it easier to fit in seeing goaltenders are a different breed in the first place.

[mogg]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Wilkes Barre has been their AHL team for about 25 years now.

You’re both right- Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Maybe there's something in the water in Finland. Some of the best Finnish prospects have been kind of awkward fits in the NHL. Even Kipper was a different cat but being a goaltender it makes it easier to fit in seeing goaltenders are a different breed in the first place.

I’ve noticed this in the last 5-10 years. You can’t trust a Finnish prospect to develop these days, no matter how good they look in junior…

[Kipper_3434]

Seems the Finnish prospects have become more like their Russian neighbors. Bigger personalities and attitudes with regards to media and training.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I’ve noticed this in the last 5-10 years. You can’t trust a Finnish prospect to develop these days, no matter how good they look in junior…

Someone needs to tell this to Kevyn Adams so that he'll give Helenius to the Flames.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I’ve noticed this in the last 5-10 years. You can’t trust a Finnish prospect to develop these days, no matter how good they look in junior…

The English thing is interesting. Swedes almost all come over fluent in English (common in Europe everywhere I've been). But Finns don't seem to push that as much as other Euro countries. Development must be a btch with that impediment, and it should be addressed asap by any drafting team.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The English thing is interesting. Swedes almost all come over fluent in English (common in Europe everywhere I've been). But Finns don't seem to push that as much as other Euro countries. Development must be a btch with that impediment, and it should be addressed asap by any drafting team.

A lot of the time there's kind of an assumption here in Finland that kids just learn English through osmosis. It's also mandatory in school (in practice), but a lot of English teachers that aren't very good. Tons of kids learn English just fine here, but we have for example a very local music culture which is almost completely in our own language, while Swedish pop music is mostly sung in English. Finnish is also from a completely different language group than... well anyone else except Estonian. The language barrier is much, much higher for Finn who speaks poor English than for a Swede.

Puljujärvi really makes me sad, I've rarely seen kid who looked like he loved to play hockey as much as he did, and he had all the tools to be good, great even. You don't score 17 points in the U20 tournament as a 17 year-old without having some very serious talent. He clearly needed more help, mentoring and time to grow than most, he was mentally very much a kid. Combine with skyhigh expectations and the Oilers "development" system, and it was a recipe for disappointment. A disappointment which always seemed very likely to me.

As for a lot of Finnish prospects being disappointments... Honestly, most Finnish hockey organizations, from teams to upper level, are lead by dinosaurs who were never good at their job to begin with. (Not all, but most.)

Probably as significant, or more so, is the culture issue. While the reputation of being a country of "introverts" is mostly a myth, Finland is very different from Sweden (for example) in some important ways. It's a culture where you're not necessarily required or expected to develop a lot of social skills, especially if you're good at something else (like playing hockey) and there isn't much in the way of a star/celebrity culture here... And we just have a very different social culture here. I think a lot of Finnish prospects just aren't mentally ready for the culture shock.

As for that 2016 WJC Team Finland in particular, it was also coached by Jukka Jalonen, who is just an absolute legend as a tournament coach, and regularly gets incredible performances out of non-elite players. (Plus that team was generally pretty stacked for a Team Finland. Mikko Rantanen and Roope Hintz are the two most notable players beyond that first line.)

[WideReceiver]

I see a business opportunity. Move to Finland to teach ESL. Bonus: get far from the stupid U.S.

[Enoch Root]

Some people need more help and support than others. Its seems pretty obvious that Puljujarvi needed extra help and the fact that he got none from the Oilers is a massive indictment on that franchise.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Itse

A lot of the time there's kind of an assumption here in Finland that kids just learn English through osmosis. It's also mandatory in school (in practice), but a lot of English teachers that aren't very good. Tons of kids learn English just fine here, but we have for example a very local music culture which is almost completely in our own language, while Swedish pop music is mostly sung in English. Finnish is also from a completely different language group than... well anyone else except Estonian. The language barrier is much, much higher for Finn who speaks poor English than for a Swede.

Puljujärvi really makes me sad, I've rarely seen kid who looked like he loved to play hockey as much as he did, and he had all the tools to be good, great even. You don't score 17 points in the U20 tournament as a 17 year-old without having some very serious talent. He clearly needed more help, mentoring and time to grow than most, he was mentally very much a kid. Combine with skyhigh expectations and the Oilers "development" system, and it was a recipe for disappointment. A disappointment which always seemed very likely to me.


As for that 2016 WJC Team Finland in particular, it was also coached by Jukka Jalonen, who is just an absolute legend as a tournament coach, and regularly gets incredible performances out of non-elite players. (Plus that team was generally pretty stacked for a Team Finland. Mikko Rantanen and Roope Hintz are the two most notable players beyond that first line.)

Interesting to compare Rantanen and Puljujarvi who were drafted a year apart. How was Rantanen's English in year one? I see also he spent an entire year (less his 9 game cup of coffee) in the AHL in year one. He excelled in San Antonio as an 18 year old under Dean Chynoweth. Then he comes up the next year and does well - I wonder if Iggy helped him - both power forwards.

[jmac98]

I can’t claim to know a lot about him, but he never seemed too terribly bright and often came across as kind of a manchild. Constantly sticking his tongue up his own nose, taking bites of food so large he can’t even close his mouth to chew. Perhaps some of this childlike behavior factored into his learning curve albeit for the English language, or the North American style of the game, or whatever.
I’m sure some of the organizations he was under can shoulder their share of the blame, but I wonder too how much simply rests within his own immaturity, if any.

[GioforPM]

Rantanen had great English when he was drafted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRLr88WuFgk

[Bleeding Red]

I don't think the English issue was as much of a factor as the maturity issue.

This is why young/rebuilding teams need to have at least 1 (or 3) Crash Davis around to teach kids how to be professionals and help them mature.



I bet Puljujarvi still has fungus on his shower shoes!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I don't think the English issue was as much of a factor as the maturity issue.

This is why young/rebuilding teams need to have at least 1 (or 3) Crash Davis around to teach kids how to be professionals and help them mature.



I bet Puljujarvi still has fungus on his shower shoes!

Hard to teach a kid who doesn't understand the language, unless your teacher speaks his language.

Imagine being 18-19 and dumped into a situation like that, and not understanding a word of what's going on around you.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hard to teach a kid who doesn't understand the language, unless your teacher speaks his language.

Imagine being 18-19 and dumped into a situation like that, and not understanding a word of what's going on around you.

Yes, I learned that from my French teacher, my Spanish teacher and ST:TNG - languages are hard.

Which makes me wonder where Koskinen was? He was the tri-fecta: from Finland, supposedly knew English, and was an older vet.

Also, Puljujarvi played in the Swedish league, so presumably he knew some Swedish. There were 3 other Swedish guys on that team. Where were they?

IIRC the Flames brought in guys (coaches & players) who spoke English & Czech to help with a couple of their new guys back in the late 80's/90's.