Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I was saying all summer that if Wolf lives up to his potential a full tank would be impossible. I'm ok with that as it seems so far that he will be an excellent goaltender for many years in the organization if all goes well. A goalie can steal games just like an elite centre. There are also more ways than one to build a team, which Conroy seems to get. He has sold a bunch of player and brought in a ton of draft capital. He has also made smart waiver wire pickups and targeted players like Bahl in trades.

It's honestly going to get pretty tiring reading "mushy middle" and people talking about the Flames wallowing in mediocrity for years because as long as the team has Wolf we will have to get used to the idea that the team will have to be rebuilt differently than the way many prefer. The only option I see for a full tank is trading Wolf and all the vets who remain.

It might not work and that would be a bummer, but Conroy can only play the cards he was dealt and I'm going to hope for the best.

Do you know what's even more tiring than reading about being in the mushy middle? Actually seeing the Flames constantly being in the mushy middle. For decades.

Your point is well taken, but there's a reason that Calgarians have become so apathetic towards this team. The mediocrity has basically caused the team to lose out on a generation of fans.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Tampa won it with a #1 and #2 overall pick on the roster back-to-back. Vegas just won it with the #2 overall pick.

That #1 overall was Stamkos. The Lightning still won with him spending most of the time on IR. Kucherov, who was drafted in the 2nd round, was clearly the won leading that team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would assume you have been a Flames fan long enough to know the Flames have been wallowing in mediocrity for decades, not years and this conversation is not a new thing. It's just the reality of the franchise we support. Even with Wolf I don't see the team being better next season or the season after for that matter. Any gains made by Coronato or Zary will be negated by Kadri, Backlund, Coleman, Huberdeau being another year near the end of their careers.

You don't see any change in how the organization is being run in the last 19 months?

If not then yeah ... it's just the reality of the franchise we support.

I might dig a little deeper!

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by blankall

That #1 overall was Stamkos. The Lightning still won with him spending most of the time on IR. Kucherov, who was drafted in the 2nd round, was clearly the won leading that team.

What about Hedman #2 overall?

Pietrangelo #4 with the Blues?

Doesn't have to be #1 overall, but picking top 5 is going give you the best shot at getting that elite talent.

LA had Doughty #3 overall. Chicago Kane and Toews.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would assume you have been a Flames fan long enough to know the Flames have been wallowing in mediocrity for decades, not years and this conversation is not a new thing. It's just the reality of the franchise we support. Even with Wolf I don't see the team being better next season or the season after for that matter. Any gains made by Coronato or Zary will be negated by Kadri, Backlund, Coleman, Huberdeau being another year near the end of their careers.

Yep I've been a life long Flames fan. As have most posting on this site. The mediocrity comments are all based on history not the present reality. If this current GM re-signed Taffoli, Lindholm, Tanev, Zadorov, etc for what they were asking I would get the "same old mediocre Flames" comments. That would be the GM trying to stay in a constant playoff hunt. But what they did was set a price and then sell the assets for draft capital. The main things keeping this team in the current spot is a rookie goalie and team that doesn't quit.

I don't see the team being better next year either. I also don't see them being a bottom 3 team with Wolf. That's why I stated that people are going to have to get used to the idea that they won't be doing a full tank but having to acquire draft capital and draft a lot and build that way.

Unless they sell Wolf this is the reality. He is a good goalie who will steal games. As long as they are drafting as much as possible and not making trades for win now players or signing them in free agency I just don't get equating this current approach to s### that happened in the 90s, 2000s or 2010s.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Do you know what's even more tiring than reading about being in the mushy middle? Actually seeing the Flames constantly being in the mushy middle. For decades.

Your point is well taken, but there's a reason that Calgarians have become so apathetic towards this team. The mediocrity has basically caused the team to lose out on a generation of fans.

Do you sell Wolf then to bottom out? If you were GM how would you approach the situation? I feel like Conroy is navigating this well.

[Jason14h]

Different approach - but without the missing elite talent I don’t see how we have a different result . And I don’t see a path to getting this elite talent , unless we believe UFAs are the path

We don’t have a lot of elite talent in the pipeline (could argue none ) and don’t look to be bottoming out (yet)

[Goriders]

Just to play devils advocate. Between 2018 and 2021 we had:

Lindholm #5
Monahan #6
Bennett #4
Hanifin #5
Tkachuk #6
Jagr #5 (2018 only)

Unless I missed it we didn’t win the cup.

I thought it was guaranteed.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Different approach - but without the missing elite talent I don’t see how we have a different result . And I don’t see a path to getting this elite talent , unless we believe UFAs are the path

We don’t have a lot of elite talent in the pipeline (could argue none ) and don’t look to be bottoming out (yet)

I don't think anyone's arguing that.

But what's the solution?

Deal Wolf? Send him to the Wranglers (he's waiver safe)?

Trade for a dressing room wrecking narcissist to put an end to this hard working like each other garbage?

I think you have to roll with what you are. The Flames have added some young, secondary talent, and what looks like an elite goaltender. So some pieces are in place that are keeping things from sliding.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Just to play devils advocate. Between 2018 and 2021 we had:

Lindholm #5
Monahan #6
Bennett #4
Hanifin #5
Tkachuk #6
Jagr #5 (2018 only)

Unless I missed it we didn’t win the cup.

I thought it was guaranteed.

The Flames 100% had the personal to win a cup. Tkachuk/Bennett actually are a first line forward pairing of a cup winning team. The arguments about drowning in mediocrity for decades, due to lack of high end drafting, kind of go out the window. The Flames spent the last decade in mediocrity because they refused to play Bennett and Tkachuk together in the top 6 and Monahan got injured.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Bennett-X

This is a potential Stanley Cup winning combo. On top of that they had a Norris winning d-man in there too. Coaching and management were the issue, not drafting.

[Vinny01]

I think the result could be option C which is missing the playoffs altogether and giving the Habs a pick in the 11-16 range for the disastrous Monahan trade

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Just to play devils advocate. Between 2018 and 2021 we had:

Lindholm #5
Monahan #6
Bennett #4
Hanifin #5
Tkachuk #6
Jagr #5 (2018 only)

Unless I missed it we didn’t win the cup.

I thought it was guaranteed.

Elite talent doesn't guarantee you a cup. But, you cannot win a cup without elite talent.

And the only player out of there I would consider elite at the time they played for the Flames was Tkachuk.

Look at our current roster, you aren't winning a cup with this group. So why even try to make playoffs?

[shutout]

Originally Posted by blankall

Coaching and management were the issue, not drafting.

So we can tank the next five years, get the picks in the top five prospects every year along with potentially a few first overall picks. At the end of the day it will mean nothing because of coaching and management.

Where in the tanking process do we find that magical duo of GM and head coach that will properly fill in the pieces and teach and lead the young superstars?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think the result could be option C which is missing the playoffs altogether and giving the Habs a pick in the 11-16 range for the disastrous Monahan trade

This is actually the most likely option. The odds of the Flames making the playoffs right now are about 25%. I think that the OP was asking, which would you prefer though, not providing all the possible options.

[BrownDrake]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Elite talent doesn't guarantee you a cup. But, you cannot win a cup without elite talent.

And the only player out of there I would consider elite at the time they played for the Flames was Tkachuk.

Look at our current roster, you aren't winning a cup with this group. So why even try to make playoffs?

You are talking about professional athletes a lot of which are working for their livelihood and if they get this far it’s because they hate losing.
I’m not sure what some of you are suggesting, trade wolf and give away Kadri with a 1st or second?? Trade Rasmus and Weegar and see if Wolf can handle 60 shots a night, that’ll teach him. Bench players that are playing well? You can’t intentionally tank or ice a roster that you know will lose 7 of 10 games.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Flames 100% had the personal to win a cup. Tkachuk/Bennett actually are a first line forward pairing of a cup winning team. The arguments about drowning in mediocrity for decades, due to lack of high end drafting, kind of go out the window. The Flames spent the last decade in mediocrity because they refused to play Bennett and Tkachuk together in the top 6 and Monahan got injured.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Bennett-X

This is a potential Stanley Cup winning combo. On top of that they had a Norris winning d-man in there too. Coaching and management were the issue, not drafting.

So now it’s not just you need top 5 draft picks but you also need coaching and management? Interesting what you find when you lift rocks up at the beach.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Do you sell Wolf then to bottom out? If you were GM how would you approach the situation? I feel like Conroy is navigating this well.

Need "no thanks" button for this one. Flames haven't developed a starter since Kid, or a star since Vernon. If they trade Wolf I'm done following hockey lol.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Flames 100% had the personal to win a cup. Tkachuk/Bennett actually are a first line forward pairing of a cup winning team. The arguments about drowning in mediocrity for decades, due to lack of high end drafting, kind of go out the window. The Flames spent the last decade in mediocrity because they refused to play Bennett and Tkachuk together in the top 6 and Monahan got injured.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Bennett-X

This is a potential Stanley Cup winning combo. On top of that they had a Norris winning d-man in there too. Coaching and management were the issue, not drafting.

And even that isn't entirely true.

Bennett and Tkachuk spent 20 less minutes together than Tkachuk and Lindholm.

They tried it. It never worked.

Bennett was the fifth most frequent linemate for Tkachuk from 2017-2020 ... he was on average 55.6% xGF% with the top four but only 51.03% with Bennett.

They just didn't click.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Just to play devils advocate. Between 2018 and 2021 we had:

Lindholm #5
Monahan #6
Bennett #4
Hanifin #5
Tkachuk #6
Jagr #5 (2018 only)

Unless I missed it we didn’t win the cup.

I thought it was guaranteed.

We are one of the few teams that missed out on that formula.

Even now we have a #3 and are not on track to win the Cup.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Goriders

So now it’s not just you need top 5 draft picks but you also need coaching and management? Interesting what you find when you lift rocks up at the beach.

Winning championships is hard. You need a lot of things to go right. Good drafting, asset management, coaching, acquisition of depth players, etc... Even if you do everything right, you typically still need a fair degree of luck. That puck in 2004 only had to move about another half inch or be slightly more angled up to spin back into the net and give the Flames a cup.