Flames prospects to be excited about

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I have to say… “a good first pass” is something a lot of people say to bolster their case about defenders who aren’t overly impressive otherwise

I’d love to see people who use this elaborate on it

What are some good example of that good first pass that distinguish them? What defenders really stand out with a lousy first pass?

Engelland had almost no first pass - he would just ring the puck. Tanev had a great pass for a defensive player.

A good first passer hits a forward in stride and starts the play going.

[D as in David]

You never hear about the defenders with a good second pass.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Possible... there's only so may spots/contracts to go around. That's what I was alluding to earlier: Are there any prospects other teams are interested in that don't necessarily fit in to the Flames plans? Say B-level prospects that can be thrown into deals?

Teams don't generally publish a list of the prospects that no longer fit their plans.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Oh ya, that one is nightmare fuel. Lets also not forget about the year prior, perhaps where the 6'7" addiction began:

6'7" Kanzig @ 67th overall in 2013
Guentzel, Buchnevich, Verhaeghe, Duclair, & Bjorkstrand all taken among the 15 picks that followed.

6'7" Hunter Smith in 2014

6'7" Riley Bruce in 2015 (granted, atleast they waited till the 7th round)

Yeah. Those picks also were following the LA cup years where they dominated the playoffs with a very slow team that was just big. Obviously there were star players that made that happen (Doughty, Kopitar, Williams, Quick) but I remember Burke speaking of LA as the example of how “you can’t teach size”.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Oh ya, that one is nightmare fuel. Lets also not forget about the year prior, perhaps where the 6'7" addiction began:

6'7" Kanzig @ 67th overall in 2013
Guentzel, Buchnevich, Verhaeghe, Duclair, & Bjorkstrand all taken among the 15 picks that followed.

6'7" Hunter Smith in 2014

6'7" Riley Bruce in 2015 (granted, atleast they waited till the 7th round)

They've drafted some six and a halfers the last few years (Laing, Hurtig, Bell), but all in the 5th round and later. I don't mind that--especially hearing the upside of some of these picks.

I also don't necessarily mind a taller guy early on -- I personally like the Honzek pick quite a bit -- but there has to be more to the prospect than just he's a big, mean guy like Hunter Smith was (and he was an overager!).

Personally, I think the Flames scouting has gotten a lot better over the 15 years -- and the scouting staff seemed to get a lot more control after the Sutter/Burke eras -- that I don't get too upset with who they pick anymore.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don’t mind trying for big players but they usually don’t make it.

Hunter Smith is a black eye on the organization. He was drafted strictly for his size. He wasn’t good at hockey. Right after that pick a Montour goes. Maybe reach on a Point he was in our backyard.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I don’t mind trying for big players but they usually don’t make it.

Hunter Smith is a black eye on the organization. He was drafted strictly for his size. He wasn’t good at hockey. Right after that pick a Montour goes. Maybe reach on a Point he was in our backyard.

Damn that 2014 draft... Hunter Smith in the 2nd round, right before Montour. Then Mason MacDonald starting off the run of goalies in the second picked over Thatcher Demko was insane. MacDonald might've been the worst goalie prospect I've ever watched. Big, slow, lumbering... terrible reaction time as well.

I tend not to get too upset about missed picks, every team has them, but those two stick out like a sore thumb.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Damn that 2014 draft... Hunter Smith in the 2nd round, right before Montour. Then Mason MacDonald starting off the run of goalies in the second picked over Thatcher Demko was insane. MacDonald might've been the worst goalie prospect I've ever watched. Big, slow, lumbering... terrible reaction time as well.

I tend not to get too upset about missed picks, every team has them, but those two stick out like a sore thumb.

That entire 2014 draft was a complete franchise changer and not in a good way. Didn’t develop Bennett and he goes on to win a cup.

[Demaeon]

Originally Posted by 1Nite

So, what are the prospects of the Flames making a trade?

We're not trading any prospects.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Damn that 2014 draft... Hunter Smith in the 2nd round, right before Montour. Then Mason MacDonald starting off the run of goalies in the second picked over Thatcher Demko was insane. MacDonald might've been the worst goalie prospect I've ever watched. Big, slow, lumbering... terrible reaction time as well.

I tend not to get too upset about missed picks, every team has them, but those two stick out like a sore thumb.

Yeah MacDonald couldn't even play well in the ECHL, Demko was an obvious choice.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Damn that 2014 draft... Hunter Smith in the 2nd round, right before Montour. Then Mason MacDonald starting off the run of goalies in the second picked over Thatcher Demko was insane. MacDonald might've been the worst goalie prospect I've ever watched. Big, slow, lumbering... terrible reaction time as well.

I tend not to get too upset about missed picks, every team has them, but those two stick out like a sore thumb.

For over 20 years the flames were clueless on goaltending

Wasted picks after picks…whoever was any good moved on somewhere else

Thanks god for Wolf now

[CFO]

2014 was a pretty horrible draft for the entire class of players when you look at what came out as impact NHL players or even just regular NHL players.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by CFO

2014 was a pretty horrible draft for the entire class of players when you look at what came out as impact NHL players or even just regular NHL players.

The number of players that were picked between 35 and 78 when the Flames had three picks (MacDonald, smith and Hickey) is quite impressive

Goalies picked after the goalie they picked at 34

Demko
Nediljekov
Vanecek
Merzilikins
Sorokin

Forwards and dmen picked after Smith
Montour
Donato
Dvorak
Foegle
Point

There were a lot of good players available between Mason and Hickey.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I have to say… “a good first pass” is something a lot of people say to bolster their case about defenders who aren’t overly impressive otherwise

I’d love to see people who use this elaborate on it

What are some good example of that good first pass that distinguish them? What defenders really stand out with a lousy first pass?

I actually wrote-out a long response with examples, but I think it was overkill. Let me try to respond more concisely.


I do agree that sometimes certain attributes seem sort of vague, but I never though of "good first pass" as one of them. Certainly "good hockey IQ" is one of them. I do get it, however - good first pass is perhaps too commonly used.


What I specifically mean by a defencemen having a good first pass is that the defencemen (not forwards - I think good first pass relates to defence only) is able to make tape-to-tape passes reliably under pressure. The key for me is under pressure - everyone SHOULD be able to make a good first pass when not under pressure, but not everyone does it well while under pressure.


There is a big spectrum for me here - good is where I peg Tanev at - really consistent passing ability while under pressure. That's a certainly a high bar, but then you have guys like Giordano above that, and Brodie beyond Giordano with his ability to hit guys on the tape at pace on his backhand, all while evading a forechecker or having back-pressure.


Solovyov specifically - I found he had the poise to evade a forechecker when needed to in order to give the forward that split-second to gain position and get open, and then made an accurate tape-to-tape pass. I also noticed him getting a few high-end stretch passes off in a hurry while under pressure too, which legitimately surprised me. I have to rank him as 'good' and not 'great' because I did see him rattled on a few and turn the puck over, and I remember him chipping a puck out of the zone off the boards to nobody even though there was a player open instead. However, he did find open guys and delivered quick passes accurately and consistently. With some more experience, I think can reach the Weegar/Andersson level which is great, but a clear step behind Giordano/Brodie/Hamilton and even Wideman (who I all think were better on the transition). I think Solovyov's first pass is better than Pachal's or Hanley's.


A way I think about this is actually a bit weird. I think back to: "Would this defecemen be good in Hartley's system?". Sarich was a really good physical stay-at-home type, but he didn't fit into Hartley's system at all because his passing ability was below average. Hartley's system partly relied on having a lightning-quick transition as you certainly are know. To have that quickness, Hartley had instituted a couple of rules (and I believe we discussed this some years ago) - one of which was that defencemen were no longer allowed to rim the puck along the boards backwards behind the net towards each other. The other rule was a preference for moving the puck up, rather than sideways, so defencemen-to-defencemen passing was discouraged. Sarich fell out of favour. Wideman had a career year. I think Solovyov had enough ability in that regard to fit into Hartley's system, so my baseline ranking of him would be 'good'. I don't think Solovyov will ever be as good as Brodie, Giordano or Wideman were (Wideman was underrated in that capacity).



Hope this answers your questions. Don't you dare ask me about hockey IQ or you will get a much longer response. LoL

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Is Fujita the MVP of the Flames training staff or what?

She seems like a miracle worker.

She did a great job with coronato. His skating compared to last season is night and day.

[Goriders]

I’d list

Kuznetsov
Brzustewicz
Basha
Klapka

As the players I thought stood out the most at the last two Penticton tourneys.

Grushnikov for physical play. Although he takes a ton of penalties

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

That entire 2014 draft was a complete franchise changer and not in a good way. Didn’t develop Bennett and he goes on to win a cup.

A homegrown RS center ranked anywhere between 31 and 57 by most top scouts including Calgary's and Burke goes against his own scouts and drafts three duds who never saw an NHL game, but but size and truculence!

I get it that lots of teams passed on Brayden Point but we watched him star for AAA Bisons and Buffalos from the time he was 14, everyone who watched him knew he'd be an NHL player, Burke can suck an egg for sewering that draft.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

A homegrown RS center ranked anywhere between 31 and 57 by most top scouts including Calgary's and Burke goes against his own scouts and drafts three duds who never saw an NHL game, but but size and truculence!

I get it that lots of teams passed on Brayden Point but we watched him star for AAA Bisons and Buffalos from the time he was 14, everyone who watched him knew he'd be an NHL player, Burke can suck an egg for sewering that draft.

You always lose when you draft for size. Missing on Point was almost unforgivable as a western NHL team who should have been able to watch him dominate every level of hockey he played in.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

That entire 2014 draft was a complete franchise changer and not in a good way. Didn’t develop Bennett and he goes on to win a cup.

Sam Bennett was not a bad pick. A solid center with warrior character to win the cup. They just ####ed him up. The only guy they could have taken over him was Nylander. Larkin and Point was never in the picture

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

That entire 2014 draft was a complete franchise changer and not in a good way. Didn’t develop Bennett and he goes on to win a cup.

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Sam Bennett was not a bad pick. A solid center with warrior character to win the cup. They just ####ed him up. The only guy they could have taken over him was Nylander. Larkin and Point was never in the picture

I don't think you read his post clearly, he literally said what you just said. He didn't call him a bad pick, he said we didn't develop him properly.