Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Wormius

In a year from now, if Trudeau steps aside, nobody will remember any of this. That’s what helps the NDP. An election now does them no good. And it’s a fantasy if anyone thinks triggering an election now is going to help the NDP win anymore seats than if they wait it out.

How will “waiting it out” help the NDP at election time? Since waiting it out also means supporting the Liberal government.

You don’t think the voters will remember that the NDP are the sole reason the Lberals are in power right up to the election?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by SebC

The federal debt is not going to concern them nearly as much as the capture of the political system by seniors (see housing prices) and the capture of wealth by the ultra-rich.

Poillievre has the potential to do a lot of lasting damage if he governs the way he opposes, by emboldening the alt right and refusing to reject their lunatic conspiracy theories.

Can you give some examples. His main platforms seem to be lowering taxes, trying to build more housing, cleaning up immigration, shrinking government influence and supporting industries.

Not sure how any of those things are bad for the country.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Azure

Hey, its actually worse than we thought. Our finance minister was fired over a zoom call, told that a non-elected person would replace her, then the non-elected person pulled out, and then our esteemed PM made the biggest idiot in the Liberal party the finance minister.

Is it possible to look like bigger idiots?

Short answer no.

There’s always a possibility of things getting worse. I can’t see them getting better with the current leadership in place. Recent history isn’t pointing in that direction.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

How will “waiting it out” help the NDP at election time? Since waiting it out also means supporting the Liberal government.

You don’t think the voters will remember that the NDP are the sole reason the Lberals are in power right up to the election?

Their polling numbers are very low at the moment so realistically they’ve got more to possibly gain than to possibly lose. If the liberals continue on their current trajectory and alienate more of their supporters, the NDP will pick up the votes from the ones who won’t under any circumstances vote for the CPC.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Slava

Unfortunately though, "real leadership" just isn't in the cards for the foreseeable future. So, we're stuck looking at a regime that's run it's course and now we end up with the other guys until all their grifting and scamming is exposed.

Guess there’s not many other options beyond trying the next guy and hoping he’s better than the last guy.

In this case though I can’t see someone being worse than the current administration. Trudeau is the worst PM I have seen in my lifetime. No ones even close. I doubt PP will be worse than Trudeau. I think it’s almost impossible at this point.

Singh might give him a run for money.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Their polling numbers are very low at the moment so realistically they’ve got more to possibly gain than to possibly lose. If the liberals continue on their current trajectory and alienate more of their supporters, the NDP will pick up the votes from the ones who won’t under any circumstances vote for the CPC.

Right now the party that’s really benefitting is the Bloc.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Can you give some examples. His main platforms seem to be lowering taxes, trying to build more housing, cleaning up immigration, shrinking government influence and supporting industries.

Not sure how any of those things are bad for the country.

Sure!

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...11#post9220111

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Their polling numbers are very low at the moment so realistically they’ve got more to possibly gain than to possibly lose. If the liberals continue on their current trajectory and alienate more of their supporters, the NDP will pick up the votes from the ones who won’t under any circumstances vote for the CPC.

So because the NDP polling numbers are low (and have been dropping), and the Liberal numbers are low (and have been declining as well), you see this a a positive indicator for the NDP?

I mean, there is a chance that the NDP take some on the remaining Liberal voters away before the next election, but that pie they are fighting over is getting smaller and smaller all the time. They will be only fighting for crust if they wait long enough.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

The words within your question show why Singh is wrong to try and force Trudeau to resign (so he can, presumably still prop up the sinking Liberal government).

Short term.

The NDP only seem concerned with the short term, and not concerned about the future of their own party. They are alienating their own voting base who might have seen them as a strong alternative to the Liberals.

Not only are the NDP enabling the weak leadership of Trudeau by supporting the government, they are also giving their own voter base the impression that they can’t stand on their own two feet as a party independent from the Liberals.

I don’t think most of their supporters are getting that impression, no matter how much you want it to be the case. In any event most of them won’t vote CPC anyways.

I understand this isn’t the answer you wanted to hear, but it’s the reality of the situation. If the NDP want to be a viable alternative and try to gain seats in the next election, they must cut ties with the Liberals, and not just hand wave about the Liberal leadership.

This wasn’t an answer at all, but that’s what I was expecting.

It’s unlikely that the NDP are in a position to have any say in regards to what gets legislated after the next election, whether it be tomorrow or next October. So the only way to guarantee keeping some of the things that are important to their base right now is to hold off. Or make a deal with the CPC, but it takes two parties to make a deal. I encourage the other party to try and facilitate that.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Can you give some examples. His main platforms seem to be lowering taxes, trying to build more housing, cleaning up immigration, shrinking government influence and supporting industries.

Not sure how any of those things are bad for the country.

Those all sound great....

But putting those into policies is more difficult; and doesn't reflect the push and pull of voters, stakeholders, and lobbyists.

Build more housing. Sounds easy enough; but the government can't (or won't) be involved in that process. It has no control over the ability of companies to finance housing starts and to meet the supply/demand ratio.

There are also competing interests in housing starts. One of the obvious ways to increase housing is to adjust zoning requirements, which seems to have immense pushback from PPs very same voter demographic. How is this to be managed? More sprawl? more costs.

Lowering taxes obviously comes with lower government revenue which needs to be made up some how. Whose taxes are being lowered? how is the revenue replaced? user fees? provincial / municipal transfers?

Cretien is pretty well praised for his lowering of the federal deficit in the 90's but that happens to coincide with increased deficits in many provinces as they had to make up the shortfall.

So, the CPC says they will cut government spending? on what? is it enough to make up the shortfall in lowered taxes plus the ongoing deficits were are experiencing?

what about commitments to defence spending?

Cleaning up immigration is probably something that should be done - although the Libs are slowly catching on; however, i would love to see the CPC fight this issue against its business interests.

support industries? in what way? which industries?

These are all platitudes and doesnt show "real leadership" as is so demanded.

Canada has major structural problems, but none of the current parties are willing to correct them - part of that is political will, but part of it is Canadians themselves.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by SebC

Sure!

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...11#post9220111

I totally missed this response. Thanks for linking it so I can give a Thanks now!

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

So because the NDP polling numbers are low (and have been dropping), and the Liberal numbers are low (and have been declining as well), you see this a a positive indicator for the NDP?

I don’t see it as a positive for them, I just understand why they are doing it. Looking at it from a different perspective calling for an early election could just as easily alienate a lot of their voter base who don’t want the CPC getting in sooner than they have to.

I mean, there is a chance that the NDP take some on the remaining Liberal voters away before the next election, but that pie they are fighting over is getting smaller and smaller all the time. They will be only fighting for crust if they wait long enough.

True, but in politics a lot can happen in a year.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I don’t think most of their supporters are getting that impression, no matter how much you want it to be the case. In any event most of them won’t vote CPC anyways.

The polling numbers don’t agree with what you are saying. You can think whatever you want, but the numbers don’t back up what you are thinking.

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

This wasn’t an answer at all, but that’s what I was expecting. .

I was wondering if you would say that.

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

It’s unlikely that the NDP are in a position to have any say in regards to what gets legislated after the next election, whether it be tomorrow or next October. So the only way to guarantee keeping some of the things that are important to their base right now is to hold off. Or make a deal with the CPC, but it takes two parties to make a deal. I encourage the other party to try and facilitate that.

You honestly think the CPC should make a deal with the NDP right now? Since the NDP have latched onto the Liberal titanic, that doesn’t sound like a smart move to me.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by SebC

Sure!

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...11#post9220111

Okay I read your post summary. I address each item.

CBC funding. Media should be arms length from government. Their job is to hold government accountable. Government funded media isn’t going to do that. It’s a conflict of interest that doesn’t benefit the country. Grants for content is different. But paying salaries isn’t a good idea in my mind.

WEF attendance. Don’t see what value this really adds to Canada. Policy making should happen within our borders. It shouldn’t be molded externally. Maybe influenced by global trends such as trade strategies. But Canadians should be forming their own policies to benefit Canadians.

Carbon tax. Why would you have any problems with paying less taxes. This is one I don’t understand. Do you think the government does a better job spending you money than you do. It’s becoming pretty obvious that they don’t.

Spending under control. Once again. It’s fairly obvious that governments are one of the least fiscally responsible entities. Why do they not have to follow general guidelines of budgeting restraint like every other canadian? What happens to regular people if they blow through their budgets and generate a ton of debt. How is it any different. The debt they are generating has to get paid back by the citizens at some point. There are consequences to debt.

Native concerns. I didn’t quite understand what you were getting at with this one.

Alt right comments. I think eventually the left vs right compartmentalization needs to subside and voters need to vote for the best leaders. Canada is very light on true leaders in it’s levels of government right now. Municipally, provincially and especially federally. We are all paying a price for that now. The left vs right infighting is just noise. It doesn’t add any value.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

The polling numbers don’t agree with what you are saying. You can think whatever you want, but the numbers don’t back up what you are thinking.


I was wondering if you would say that.


You honestly think the CPC should make a deal with the NDP right now? Since the NDP have latched onto the Liberal titanic, that doesn’t sound like a smart move to me.

You’re proving my point. The NDP gain nothing from triggering an early election. Especially if the CPC are going to play that way. If a new LPC leader emerges and things play out well over the next few months, it’s favourable for everyone (except the CPC).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Numbers from 388canada are similar.

CPC 43% 226 seats
Liberals 22% 47 seats
NDP 19% 23 seats
Bloc 8% 45 seats
Green 4% 2 seats

Time to take the Liberal/NDP frankenhorse out to pasture and put a bullet in its head. How much more of this gong show does the country have to watch.

It’s f’ing embarrassing at this point. The younger generations in this country are going to be saddled with the massive debt that this collection of idiots have run up. Like a boat anchor on their standards of living. I can’t believe any of them would still consider voting for the “leaders” that have undermined their future.

Hopefully there’s someone in the Liberal party that can talk some sense into Trudeau’s head and either get him to step aside or the rest of the MPs have the courage to vote non confidence and finally put an end to the current government.

3/4 of the national debt is from Harper and Mulroney.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Wormius

You’re proving my point. The NDP gain nothing from triggering an early election. Especially if the CPC are going to play that way. If a new LPC leader emerges and things play out well over the next few months, it’s favourable for everyone (except the CPC).

How does a new, and presumably better Liberal leader help the NDP? How will that bring votes to the NDP in the next election?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

How does a new, and presumably better Liberal leader help the NDP? How will that bring votes to the NDP in the next election?

Because the NDP can’t be accused of propping up a Trudeau Liberal government.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Because the NDP can’t be accused of propping up a Trudeau Liberal government.

You think that will bring votes to the NDP? What party would these votes be coming from (what party would lose votes)?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

You think that will bring votes to the NDP? What party would these votes be coming from (what party would lose votes)?

Isn’t that your entire argument for why the NDP should stop supporting the Liberals in the first place?