[PGT] Tampa douses the Flames 8-3.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This sounds a lot like the people that say 'same old middling Flames' every time they don't like something.

You're talking about people talking about his potential, and to make your case you refer to his past where he was - wait for it - a backup. No one here has ever claimed he is going to be an elite goalie, but allowing him to continue to develop - as all players have to do - doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

He was great last night for 40 minutes. The rest of the team quit playing - why should we criticize him for doing the same?

I'm probably as grounded a fan as there is when it comes to accessing players. I don't fall in love with any player and I don't hate on players as getting attached to players makes fandom more difficult than it has to be. I simply fail to see why anyone holds this guy in high regard as there's no statistical evidence that shows he's even an average NHL backup goaltender. He's not likely going to be a Calgary Flame next season so I feel if you can get anything for him in a trade, do it while you can.

[GioforPM]

How did this PGT turn into a Vladar thread? He was not a reason for the loss at all. Erase his bad play and it’s 7-3. The Flames gave up in the third. Which is sad to see, but pretty human of them the way the game went.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How did this PGT turn into a Vladar thread? He was not a reason for the loss at all. Erase his bad play and it’s 7-3. The Flames gave up in the third. Which is sad to see, but pretty human of them the way the game went.

I agree. It's just sometimes I get triggered when DeluxMustache starts defending goaltenders as he's got some weird attachment to Flames backup goaltenders going back years. I don't have anything against Dan Vladar as he seems like a good dude. He's just not a very good NHL goaltender relative to his peers.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How did this PGT turn into a Vladar thread? He was not a reason for the loss at all. Erase his bad play and it’s 7-3. The Flames gave up in the third. Which is sad to see, but pretty human of them the way the game went.

Yeah the team was bad and Vladar was one of those on the team, even if not the worst. Nothing new however.

Again...look at his entire career and tell me how he is even considered a decent back up in this league?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah the team was bad and Vladar was one of those on the team, even if not the worst. Nothing new however.

Again...look at his entire career and tell me how he is even considered a decent back up in this league?

Look at the name of this thread and tell me why I should comment on a player’s career?

[transplant99]

OK then.....dont?

[Toonage]

lol every thread goes off the rails to some extent. Look at the trade speculation thread. Why should this one be any different?

It'll die by the end of the day and we'll move on to something else.

Doesn't need a traffic cop.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

lol every thread goes off the rails to some extent. Look at the trade speculation thread. Why should this one be any different?

It'll die by the end of the day and we'll move on to something else.

Doesn't need a traffic cop.

So if going off the rails off topic doesn’t sit well with me I should just shut up? Got it.

Speaking of traffic cops I mean.

[Bonded]

That was the defense I was expecting all of last season. That was a brutal game by the entire team.

[Toonage]

^^ I mean, not so bluntly. When I whine about the trade speculation I get a dozen or so people telling me to shut it.

Let people whine about Vladar. It'll peter out. There'll be a new PGT tomorrow to roast someone else on.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's a bad team. It's a mostly young and inexperienced defense. Last night was a tough night, they happen. This was expected BY EVERYONE before the season started. But when it happens, and we see the underbelly of a rebuild, everyone loses their #### and wants to throw the goalie under the bus.

I just shake my head at some of the takes in here.

You're right, but Vladar also is part of the problem. I really didn't like the 2nd goal on him. Clear vision, shot from well out (even if it was a little towards the very high slot, it was from far enough away), and it went right under his glove without a deflection or any real screen.

He was even pissed at himself after, you could tell. Rightly so, it should have been stopped, and if they're letting him run with the net, those are the kind of saves you need to make if you're trying to be "the guy". Time and again, we see that he probably isn't ever going to be a starter.

He battles hard, he uses his legs well, and he has the ability to make some incredible saves, but he's inconsistent and lets soft ones in, sometimes not using his size well and dropping to his knees too early. He might be able to figure it out, but he's pretty well seasoned at this point and probably isn't going to change too much.

I don't mind him playing. I don't want Wolf in there for every game, and I think they have to see what they have in Vladar before deciding to move on. Letting him play for an extended stretch shows what he can do as the main guy, but also it shows how he responds after a bad goal or a bad night in general. So far, it's been okay, but I don't expect him to be given too much more rope before letting Wolf take over.

It's fine, this is what rebuilding is. Giving guys an opportunity before they're ready or have clearly earned it so you can see if they're part of the plan long term. It's time to let Wolf get a few games in a row now too for the same reasons.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Caveat - Last night wasn't entirely his fault.

That said, its kind of poor timing on the back of the LeBrun comment that the Flames aren't looking to be sellers. Cooley is waiting in the A and doing exceptionally well.

If there is a chance to move Vladar for whatever, you do it.

People take the media comments way too seriously. I am sure Vladar would be gone if anything decent was offered for him. If all someone is offering is a 4th or something then that will be there at the deadline.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

You're right, but Vladar also is part of the problem. I really didn't like the 2nd goal on him. Clear vision, shot from well out (even if it was a little towards the very high slot, it was from far enough away), and it went right under his glove without a deflection or any real screen.

it was one bad goal in a game where the team was getting dominated. It balanced out the save he made on what looked like a sure goal.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Bonded

People take the media comments way too seriously. I am sure Vladar would be gone if anything decent was offered for him. If all someone is offering is a 4th or something then that will be there at the deadline.

Fair point.

I know Conroy likes to operate on a set price, and see who meets it, but in this case the guy is walking at the end of the year, the team fancies itself a playoff contender or wants to be and they have a goalie in the AHL standing on his head. Just hope the GM isn't overthinking things and holding out for something he isn't going to get.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Bonded

it was one bad goal in a game where the team was getting dominated. It balanced out the save he made on what looked like a sure goal.

right, but that's what I mean by consistency. He has the ability to make some incredible saves, and then lets in a pretty weak one. It balances out, but it also deflates the team.

It's the same as seeing Huberdeau score early, but then turn the puck over at the offensive blue line to Kucherov who goes in and scores easily on a clean breakaway from the neutral zone. It's deflating and demoralizing. It's hard to expect your team to compete to actually win when things happen like that on the regular.

It's happened so much lately that the team is beginning to fold at the first sign of adversity, rather than coming back in the third period like they did earlier in the year. Those singular events matter for team morale. Even if guys make great plays, those really bad plays undermine the team confidence.

It's why Cam Talbot keeps getting starting goalie jobs. He's not fantastic, but he's consistent. He has holes in his game, but they're the same holes every night, and the team knows what to expect from him. You can build a game plan around that consistent flaw. When you don't know what to expect, it becomes really hard to game plan and win.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Fair point.

I know Conroy likes to operate on a set price, and see who meets it, but in this case the guy is walking at the end of the year, the team fancies itself a playoff contender or wants to be and they have a goalie in the AHL standing on his head. Just hope the GM isn't overthinking things and holding out for something he isn't going to get.

He did pretty good on all of this trades so far IMO. It could be as simple as he thinks Vladar is worth keeping to get absolutely shelled if the team reverts to where it should be. I am not too fussed over getting a 5th vs a 3rd

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

right, but that's what I mean by consistency. He has the ability to make some incredible saves, and then lets in a pretty weak one. It balances out, but it also deflates the team.

It's the same as seeing Huberdeau score early, but then turn the puck over at the offensive blue line to Kucherov who goes in and scores easily on a clean breakaway from the neutral zone. It's deflating and demoralizing. It's hard to expect your team to compete to actually win when things happen like that on the regular.

It's happened so much lately that the team is beginning to fold at the first sign of adversity, rather than coming back in the third period like they did earlier in the year. Those singular events matter for team morale. Even if guys make great plays, those really bad plays undermine the team confidence.

It's why Cam Talbot keeps getting starting goalie jobs. He's not fantastic, but he's consistent. He has holes in his game, but they're the same holes every night, and the team knows what to expect from him. You can build a game plan around that consistent flaw. When you don't know what to expect, it becomes really hard to game plan and win.

Vasilevsky let in a similar one to that. All goalies do - sometimes the puck gets past them. Goaltending is hard, and the puck is weirdly shaped - sometimes it comes off the stick in unexpected ways, and makes the goalie look silly.

But Flames fans jump all over the goalies every time the red light goes on (unless Wolf is in net)

[TheIronMaiden]

I look forward to the day that Kezmenko is no longer a Flame.

[Flamesfan05]

Vladar is what he is . A .8xx goalie.
Now he is 27, there is no real potential left. His best value was when the wizard overpaid for him

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I look forward to the day that Kezmenko is no longer a Flame.

A cap dump. Just be patient and wait for the clock to run out