American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Undercoverbrother had an almost unsaitable bloodblust when Russia invaded Ukraine, at an uncomfortable level and suddenly he's mister peace when it comes to a CEO whose decisions have benefited only his shareholders while leaving untold others to suffer and die.

If you can't understand the difference between killing an invader during wartime and killing someone during peacetime I'm not sure what to tell you

[BigThief]

Brian Thompson undoubtedly has more blood on his hands than any one individual soldier.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

If you can't understand the difference between killing an invader during wartime and killing someone during peacetime I'm not sure what to tell you

If I may, I think the argument may have moved into the realm of whether the class warfare that the CEO level executives are undertaking on the primary people relying on health insurance to survive is that dissimilar to an armed invasion/ classic warfare.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Its like a modified trolley problem. Disregarding the "sacrificing the few for the many" part of the experiment, the difference between say Bid Laden and a Healthcare CEO is in pulling the lever.

If you have the ability, and responsibility, to pull the lever and don't, then someone dies are you as culpable as someone who pulled the lever and someone died?

That's the morality of it. "Hitler, Bid Laden, etc" actively pulled the lever and people died. UHC refused to pull the lever and allowed people to die. Now it comes down to personal and societal morality.

If I am a lifeguard standing on the dock and someone is drowning and I have a ring buoy. I look down and think, that person should probably be able to swim on their own so I don't throw it, and they drown. Am I a murderer? Did I have a responsibility to help them as I had the tools and my role was to assist them?

I can understand both points of view. Personally, I think denying of a positive action makes me as culpable as performing a negative action, which is where the internet seems to be leaning right now.

How much of the "internet posters" reflects societal morality? Its hard to say, as societal morality seems to be determined by the ruling class of oligarchs. You never would have seen the police resources thrown at this case if the victim had been a claims adjuster for UHC as opposed to the CEO. That in itself tells us how much of our morality is judged by our wealth and status.

The internet outrage is not just some random hatred, it is showing the very large chasm in morality growing between the ruling class and the plebs.

Yes, absolutely you did. You're a lifeguard, that's your job/purpose.

So the question is, what is the role of a health insurance provider?

I think most people would answer that their role is to provide people with healthcare when they need it, which means when they deny life saving care, they are/should be culpable for that death.

Unfortunately, the system in the US is so messed up, the role of a health insurance provider is absolutely NOT to provide people with healthcare, it's a money making venture with the purpose of making money for their shareholders. It's actual purpose is 100% at odds with what it's purpose SHOULD be.

If any other kind of company made decisions that prioritized profit over peoples health/well being, the way health insurance providers do, their executives would be in jail. But that one industry gets a pass because they are only indirectly responsible for those people dying.

Health Insurance providers in the US should be looked at the same way cigarette companies are. They are both companies that take people's money knowing full well that the decisions made a that company will cause a lot of harm to a lot of people.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

Let’s start by not killing people, full stop. He didn’t do anything positive, he ended the life of a guy who as distasteful as you find it works within the capitalist framework they so proudly espouse there. I don’t like thier medical system, at all, and think it’s awful for people, but it’s the system they repeatedly choose. You don’t in a society get to start killing people off for the very thing the majority of people keep supporting,

Not for nothing, but NOBODY voted for Insurance companies to have carte blanche over their ability to Deny legitimate claims, the government's lack of intervention to them exploiting the system doesn't mean the populace has repeatedly chosen it, they may choose a system of private health care where they pay for the coverage they need, but nobody is casting a ballot in support of the abuses we so often see.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Its like a modified trolley problem. Disregarding the "sacrificing the few for the many" part of the experiment, the difference between say Bid Laden and a Healthcare CEO is in pulling the lever.

UHC execs were quite active. The policies of the company didn't write themselves.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Someone is putting up wanted posted in NYC for other health care CEOs

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/commen...osters_in_nyc/

You know...it occurs to me at times that when people like Charles Manson predicted that there would be a class war where society would tear itself apart...he might have just been ahead of the curve.

Now that doesnt excuse all the rest of the behaviour, just that there might have been something there.

In terms of all of this nonsense though? I take a slightly different view of it. Corporations and their CEOs have gone to great lengths to remove, limit or even eradicate oversight so they could do whatever they wanted.

They then proceeded to do whatever they wanted.

One reaps what one sows. If its a whirlwind? So be it.

Careful what you wish for. Sometimes the only thing worse than not getting...is getting it.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

This is a few things:

1. Trump disdains Trudeau and his style. Its really saying he doesn’t respect Trudeau, not so much Canada

2. He wants us to increase military funding for which he knows Trudeau is fake about. He’s likely sick of Trudeau showing up to talk then not doing anything when he gets home.

We can call Trump stupid, but he’s far from it. He knows what he wants. A serious partner to the North who will align with him and not play games.

I have said for years pick a lane, its this guy or China. We should be strong again IMO and if Trump can force that issue great. So much wasted promise last 10 years due to fake woke preening.

Again, not a Trump supporter but Trudeau deserves this bullying.

are you a real person?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Locke

You know...it occurs to me at times that when people like Charles Manson predicted that there would be a class war where society would tear itself apart...he might have just been ahead of the curve.

Now that doesnt excuse all the rest of the behaviour, just that there might have been something there.

In terms of all of this nonsense though? I take a slightly different view of it. Corporations and their CEOs have gone to great lengths to remove, limit or even eradicate oversight so they could do whatever they wanted.

They then proceeded to do whatever they wanted.

One reaps what one sows. If its a whirlwind? So be it.

Careful what you wish for. Sometimes the only thing worse than not getting...is getting it.

I just watched Very Scary People about Charles Manson last week. Wasn't he trying only to start a race war when he slaughtered all those people?

Also the crazy thing was all the killings started when the Beach Boys stole his song, changed the title of it and played it on national tv.. lol

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

I just watched Very Scary People about Charles Manson last week. Wasn't he trying only to start a race war when he slaughtered all those people?

Also the crazy thing was all the killings started when the Beach Boys stole his song, changed the title of it and played it on national tv.. lol

Yes, Manson believed the Beatles White Album was predicting a race war between black and white people. Charlie decided he would light the flame to get it started by sending some of his family members to murder some people and leave messages written in blood at the scene.

[Just a guy]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Yes, absolutely you did. You're a lifeguard, that's your job/purpose.

So the question is, what is the role of a health insurance provider?

I think most people would answer that their role is to provide people with healthcare when they need it, which means when they deny life saving care, they are/should be culpable for that death.

Unfortunately, the system in the US is so messed up, the role of a health insurance provider is absolutely NOT to provide people with healthcare, it's a money making venture with the purpose of making money for their shareholders. It's actual purpose is 100% at odds with what it's purpose SHOULD be.

If any other kind of company made decisions that prioritized profit over peoples health/well being, the way health insurance providers do, their executives would be in jail. But that one industry gets a pass because they are only indirectly responsible for those people dying.

Health Insurance providers in the US should be looked at the same way cigarette companies are. They are both companies that take people's money knowing full well that the decisions made a that company will cause a lot of harm to a lot of people.

This is the issue with all insurance. The expectation is that you pay money upfront for the potential use of services when needed. They will make more money if they deny the claim, regardless if it is health, life, auto, home,...

In a true market place people would not use a company that denies too many claims and they would lose business or go under if they didn't adapt. For some reason this doesn't seem to be the case with health insurance.

If you look at private versus public health care the issues are similar in that there is so much money allocated and someone is making a decision on who gets what and when, if at all.

So I don't know if the problem is so much which system, but more likely the escalating costs for health care. Procedures have gotten more complex, more "cures" found for illnesses that didn't have cures before.

Perhaps the answer lies in differentiating between standard health care and the extreme. If you have standard health issues you can go private, but the public takes over when you go outside those boundaries. This is backwards from the Canadian system, where we have public for standard health care and private for things outside standard.

In short I believe that the issue is increasing costs and that the solution is not likely to be all one way or the other, but more of a hybrid.

[EldrickOnIce]

The Louigi alibi memes are fun

[Locke]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The Louigi alibi memes are fun

Well thats no fair, you've gotta either post your favourites or links!

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Can we now shoot mechanics that overcharge?

Mechanics just because, nevermind overcharging.
Appliance repair people too.
Probably a long list who can be shot actually.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well thats no fair, you've gotta either post your favourites or links!

OK, this was good

https://twitter.com/user/status/1866761672653934654

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well thats no fair, you've gotta either post your favourites or links!

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/18NcbG7mMj/



Jay St. Video Games
What a busy month it's been. Special thanks to Luigi Mangione for your help on Dec 4th from 6am to 6pm. What a long shift to never leave our sight once not even to use the bathroom but customers really enjoyed your catchphrase "I'll never go to NYC, and the only thing I hate more than hoods on jackets is guns." Very weird thing to say constantly all day but also very funny. PUT ON A SHIRT YOU GOOF!
Leave us and Luigi a 5 star Google review ❤️
Jay St Video Games https://g.co/kgs/56duv6G

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Just a guy

This is the issue with all insurance. The expectation is that you pay money upfront for the potential use of services when needed. They will make more money if they deny the claim, regardless if it is health, life, auto, home,...

In a true market place people would not use a company that denies too many claims and they would lose business or go under if they didn't adapt. For some reason this doesn't seem to be the case with health insurance.

If you look at private versus public health care the issues are similar in that there is so much money allocated and someone is making a decision on who gets what and when, if at all.

So I don't know if the problem is so much which system, but more likely the escalating costs for health care. Procedures have gotten more complex, more "cures" found for illnesses that didn't have cures before.

Perhaps the answer lies in differentiating between standard health care and the extreme. If you have standard health issues you can go private, but the public takes over when you go outside those boundaries. This is backwards from the Canadian system, where we have public for standard health care and private for things outside standard.

In short I believe that the issue is increasing costs and that the solution is not likely to be all one way or the other, but more of a hybrid.

But one system has a third partner, the shareholders who demand a return. So instead of all the money going to patient care, it gets split between the company, taxes they have to pay, salaries for pointless busywork that is unnecessary in a single payer system, shareholders, executives, buildings and infrastructure, software and IT, and holy #### no wonder US health care is twice as expensive as anywhere else on earth.

Ultimately the difference is there is a far lower percentage of money going to patient care.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Can we now shoot mechanics that overcharge?

Well, if you pay for a brake job and they say "brakes are not a requirement to drive forwards, so we've taken your money and left your car at the top of a steep hill. Goodbye." And the mechanic shops have gotten together and bribed the politicians to write laws that say "brakes are optional under some circumstances" and the mechanic shops get to decide what those circumstances are, and you have no practical recourse, and your daughter dies when her car crashes, well then you might have a somewhat similar analogy.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well, if you pay for a brake job and they say "brakes are not a requirement to drive forwards, so we've taken your money and left your car at the top of a steep hill. Goodbye." And the mechanic shops have gotten together and bribed the politicians to write laws that say "brakes are optional under some circumstances" and the mechanic shops get to decide what those circumstances are, and you have no practical recourse, and your daughter dies when her car crashes, well then you might have a somewhat similar analogy.

Don't hate the player, hate the game

[Looch City]

If the CEO didn't want to be shot, he should've not dressed all fancy with an expensive suit and tie. His shoes alone gave him away and made it worth it.