American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[blender]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

People surprised at the reaction from others about this shooting may want to look into the concept of Social Murder and the people and instututions who legally facilitate and perpetuate it in modern society.

And for whoever was asking for examples of violence working, here's a timely bit of "reconsideration" for you from the very instution this violence targeted

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/insura...gery-1.7135378

Violence will always draw attention, and that attention can have an effect, but I'll be surprised if there is any meaningful change from it. When the noise dies down, does society really care about a dead CEO any more than the people that died as result of his company's actions?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The civil rights movement was not non-violent. That's a liberal, white-washed version of history designed for a pacifist pedagogy, which primarily benefits those who hold power.

The phase that worked was non-violent on the part of the protestors. The Soledad Brothers, Angela Davis, and the Black Panthers achieved nothing except strengthen the law and order backlash that handed Richard Nixon two election triumphs.

But keep telling yourself violence, assassinations, and riots are the way to bring about more just, socialist system. The authoritarian right is licking its lips at the prospects of bringing down the hammer.

The far left’s stance on law and order is smash-your-own-head-into-a-wall-repeatedly level idiocy. It’s such a guaranteed loser in electoral politics (including in disadvantaged communities) that it makes me wonder if the left in North America even wants to be in power.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Yamer

For the record, I don't believe you are dismissive. It's just that saying something along the line of "things have never been better" - while anecdotally and technically true - is inherently dismissive of those people who haven't made the gains in line with the progression of those more privileged.

Fair enough. We do need to be compassionate and work harder to provide security to those who are disadvantaged.

But I never cease to be dismayed by how many comfortably upper-middle-class people believe we live in the worst of times.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The phase that worked was non-violent on the part of the protestors. The Soledad Brothers, Angela Davis, and the Black Panthers achieved nothing except strengthen the law and order backlash that handed Richard Nixon two election triumphs.

But keep telling yourself violence, assassinations, and riots are the way to bring about more just, socialist system. The authoritarian right is licking its lips at the prospects of bringing down the hammer.

The far left’s stance on law and order is smash-your-own-head-into-a-wall-repeatedly level idiocy. It’s such a guaranteed loser in electoral politics (including in disadvantaged communities) that it makes me wonder if the left in North America even wants to be in power.

You should brush up on your history if you think the Black Panthers and Angela Davis accomplished nothing.

If you don’t even understand history, how do you expect to be taken seriously in relating that history to today?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You should brush up on your history if you think the Black Panthers and Angela Davis accomplished nothing.

If you don’t even understand history, how do you expect to be taken seriously in relating that history to today?

What did they accomplish? I mean besides help push the electorate to the right and give Nixon one of the biggest landslides in U.S. history.

Next you’re going to tell me defund the policy was a big electoral winner for the Democrats.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

As a society we would be way better off both financially and socially if at most 20% of our population attended mostly utilitarian degrees, specific to a profession or career and the rest of us that just aren't that bright (myself included) went to trade schools or learnt on the job.

What I fail to understand is why it seems like we are perpetually short on trades, yet people aren't getting paid significantly higher in those roles as a result. If you can make a very good living in trades, the problem will take care of itself and SAIT will be expanding like crazy.

Is the perceived shortage not true? Is there some other mechanism in the construction industry that is somehow suppressing wages?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What did they accomplish? I mean besides help push the electorate to the right and give Nixon one of the biggest landslides in U.S. history.

Next you’re going to tell me defund the policy was a big electoral winner for the Democrats.

Their willingness to address police brutality head on is an impact we still feel today, with many reforms over the years and a willingness for communities to come together and address oppression directly. Their free breakfast for children program not only fed many thousands of children nationwide, but was also catalyst for similar government-run programs with the government not wanting to be outdone by the Panthers. They opened around a dozen schools, and many of their efforts helped communities access healthcare, legal aid, and welfare supports.

Their influence and ability to bridge racial divides around common causes was heavily felt in the anti-war movement and is evident not only in the Black Lives Matter movement today, but basically all grass roots activism.

It feels entirely ignorant to speak on civil rights and activism in general and think they accomplished “nothing.” I understand this view probably comes from some terminally online echo chamber of which you rely heavily on, but I highly recommend getting out of your bubble and doing some more research on these movements if you want to truly understand where we are today.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

What I fail to understand is why it seems like we are perpetually short on trades, yet people aren't getting paid significantly higher in those roles as a result. If you can make a very good living in trades, the problem will take care of itself and SAIT will be expanding like crazy.

Is the perceived shortage not true? Is there some other mechanism in the construction industry that is somehow suppressing wages?

Well...this is anecdotal upon experience with my clients, but there is a wage structure in place that does pose some problems, and I'm speaking specifically about electricians here.

Some companies will take on young workers going for their tickets, but depending on the type of contracts and work that company has available they will lay-off workers as soon as they become Journeymen because the majority of the work available is apprentice work.

So you pay lower wages to apprentices rather than pay a Journeyman a much higher rate for the same work that...an apprentice can do.

For instance, my son-in-law got laid off the second he got his ticket.

That being said though, being an Electrician? Damn that is some good work. Since every bleeding heart wants to electrify everything those guys are run off their feet. There will be work for sparkies for decades.

[Fuzz]

So the problem appears to be...capitalism.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

What I fail to understand is why it seems like we are perpetually short on trades, yet people aren't getting paid significantly higher in those roles as a result. If you can make a very good living in trades, the problem will take care of itself and SAIT will be expanding like crazy.

Is the perceived shortage not true? Is there some other mechanism in the construction industry that is somehow suppressing wages?

One of my older kids who didn't manage to finish his chippies apprenticeship and just got out of serving three years for possession (kind of why he didnt finish his red seal, it was also alot of charlie) is starting his first job on parole at 40 bucks an hour, trades pay well

If you are making 40 or 50 bucks an hour at 20 with almost unlimited overtime and no debt, you are laughing

[afc wimbledon]

On a wholly different note reports are coming in of statues of Assad and his father being pulled down in Damascus, Russia is apparently evacuating the country, it looks like the end of the last Baathist regime is going down this weekend

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So the problem appears to be...capitalism.

No. The problem is growth of expertise in industry.

If your company does basic work that is below your qualifications it doesnt make sense to hire a rocket scientist to screw in lightbulbs when someone else can and will do it for less.

In the case of my son-in-law, he is a specialist now at installing EV charging stations. You want him to wire a domestic breaker panel? He can do it. But you'd be paying his rate. That doesnt make economic sense when some 19 year old kid could do the same job for a fifth of the cost because you can only charge the client so much.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Their willingness to address police brutality head on is an impact we still feel today, with many reforms over the years and a willingness for communities to come together and address oppression directly. Their free breakfast for children program not only fed many thousands of children nationwide, but was also catalyst for similar government-run programs with the government not wanting to be outdone by the Panthers. They opened around a dozen schools, and many of their efforts helped communities access healthcare, legal aid, and welfare supports.

Their influence and ability to bridge racial divides around common causes was heavily felt in the anti-war movement and is evident not only in the Black Lives Matter movement today, but basically all grass roots activism.

It feels entirely ignorant to speak on civil rights and activism in general and think they accomplished “nothing.” I understand this view probably comes from some terminally online echo chamber of which you rely heavily on, but I highly recommend getting out of your bubble and doing some more research on these movements if you want to truly understand where we are today.

You’ve completely lost the thread.

Rube justified the use of violence in politics and said the civil rights movement was not always peaceful.

I responded that the effective strategies were peaceful.

And you counter that with… a bunch of peaceful strategies.

Looks like we’re agreed that the peaceful strategies are productive and the violent ones aren’t.

Also, as nice as all that stuff is, it’s pretty small potatoes against all the elections the Democrats lost at various levels in that era due to the black power movement being associated with hijinks like abducting judges and blowing their heads off with shotguns.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Locke

No. The problem is growth of expertise in industry.

If your company does basic work that is below your qualifications it doesnt make sense to hire a rocket scientist to screw in lightbulbs when someone else can and will do it for less.

In the case of my son-in-law, he is a specialist now at installing EV charging stations. You want him to wire a domestic breaker panel? He can do it. But you'd be paying his rate. That doesnt make economic sense when some 19 year old kid could do the same job for a fifth of the cost because you can only charge the client so much.

Except that judging by the quality of work being done, particularity on new builds, it seems they should be looking for a bit higher experience level than they do, and paying for it. But they don't, because they can pass of ####e work to unsuspecting buyers and laugh all the way to the bank with the difference. So, like...capitalism.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You’ve completely lost the thread.

Rube justified the use of violence in politics and said the civil rights movement was not always peaceful.

I responded that the effective strategies were peaceful.

And you counter that with… a bunch of peaceful strategies.

Looks like we’re agreed that the peaceful strategies are productive and the violent ones aren’t.

Well, you actually suggested the Black Panthers didn’t accomplish anything, so I was happy to educate you. You’re more than welcome to say you misspoke but you could also just admit you don’t know what you’re talking about. If you wanted to make a point that sounded educated on the matter, you could have suggested that groups like the Panthers were most effective when they were non-violent, instead of bringing them up only to suggest they accomplished “nothing.” Again, I realise you’re not used to having to defend your position in your usual online echo chamber, but you shouldn’t be so sensitive to having your incorrect views challenged and corrected if you want to be taken seriously.

The Panthers believed non-violence couldn’t accomplish these things alone. So, if you’re now backtracking to admit they did have a meaningful legacy, it seems like you agree that non-violence isn’t the only answer. Glad to have you come around.

Intimidation and violence were a part of what they accomplished, like it or not. It was effective in emboldening communities and providing the courage to stay up against police brutality, and while it ultimately led to their downfall, goading the FBI and the police into heavy handed responses ultimately played into their favour.

It’s fine to be a pacifist and believe in non-violence, I’m the same way. But that’s no excuse to be ignorant about these things. Know your history, Cliff, be a bit better here.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Also, as nice as all that stuff is, it’s pretty small potatoes against all the elections the Democrats lost at various levels in that era due to the black power movement being associated with hijinks like abducting judges and blowing their heads off with shotguns.

Sure Cliff, forming policies that help feed impoverished children today and contributing to the end of the Vietnam War are pretty small potatoes.

Certainly not as historically significant as the accomplishments gained by the legion of middle aged, middle class men who fashion themselves as classical liberals and whose primary playground for community action is the hollowed ground of politically slanted internet forums and comment sections. Honourable work, I’m sure.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

On a wholly different note reports are coming in of statues of Assad and his father being pulled down in Damascus, Russia is apparently evacuating the country, it looks like the end of the last Baathist regime is going down this weekend

Whether or not this is good is unknown at this point because a potential take over by the terrorist HTS is not really a step in the right direction.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Whether or not this is good is unknown at this point because a potential take over by the terrorist HTS is not really a step in the right direction.

True, my guess is ordinary Syrians will be screwed no matter what

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

What I fail to understand is why it seems like we are perpetually short on trades, yet people aren't getting paid significantly higher in those roles as a result. If you can make a very good living in trades, the problem will take care of itself and SAIT will be expanding like crazy.

Is the perceived shortage not true? Is there some other mechanism in the construction industry that is somehow suppressing wages?

Kind of a bit of everything:

-Certified tradespeople generally are paid quite well already and wages have risen. But it's also very hard and physically taxing work. I have experience in construction, and I would need to be paid significantly more money to do that compared to a non-physical labor job. In a relatively low unemployment context like we've seen for much of the last 25 years or so, it can be hard to attract people to that industry even with higher pay.

-There isn't really a critical shortage in an objective sense; there's just a ton of construction activity in Canada. Canada's housing starts per capita are nearly 2x what the US's are for instance. And Vancouver alone has more than 2x as many cranes currently operating (214) as Boston, Chicago, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, and Seattle do combined (94). Calgary alone has as many cranes operating (24) as Boston, Chicago, New York, and San Francisco do combined (24).

-Related to that, because construction supply can be somewhat elastic (i.e. they're not producing consumable necessities like food, energy, medicine, etc.), builders are going to create conditions that are more profitable for them. So if the market value of a project doesn't justify increasing wages to attract more workers, then they just won't do it.

-And as Locke mentioned, a lot of the work can be done by lower wage workers like apprentices and laborers. So that's going to depress tradespeoples' wages to some degree.

[afc wimbledon]

Iraq is reporting 2000 Syrian Army troops have crossed into Iraq and are asking for refuge