I think this is exactly the reason why RFK Jr will NOT get confirmed. Way too many Republicans and probably a lot of Democrats have the food industry in their pockets.
Sanders, however, criticized Kennedy’s stance on issues like vaccinations and removing fluoride from U.S. water supply systems, calling them “extremely dangerous.”
Despite his agreement with Kennedy on the food industry issue, Sanders did not commit to backing Kennedy’s nomination as the secretary of Health and Human Services.
I’m not dismissive of people struggling in our society. I do have contempt for people who think political violence is the way to help them. Anyone who believes a breakdown of civil norms and the rule of law will bring about a socialist revolution is beyond delusional. The last thing that will be on the minds of those who crawl out of the rubble of broken institutions is rainbow flags, unless it’s to set them on fire.
For the record, I don't believe you are dismissive. It's just that saying something along the line of "things have never been better" - while anecdotally and technically true - is inherently dismissive of those people who haven't made the gains in line with the progression of those more privileged.
__________________ "It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm." -Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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Cliff is indigenous? I didn't think that through all the years, that's surprising.
He also cycles more than anyone on the forum (apparently)
__________________ MMF is the tough as nails cop that "plays by his own rules". The force keeps suspending him when he crosses the line but he keeps coming back and then cracks a big case.
-JiriHrdina
Also falls in line with the correlation we're seeing where since about 2022 young men are moving notably more right, while young women are more left-learning and the rates of young women getting educated and landing in professional work is increasing while rates of men getting educated to the same level is declining.
The civil rights movement was not non-violent. That's a liberal, white-washed version of history designed for a pacifist pedagogy, which primarily benefits those who hold power.
Martin Luther King was committed to non-violent resistance. There were obviously multiple instances of violent acts throughout the Civil rights movement, but it is absolutely not a whitewash to say it was a non-violent movement at heart.
Let me ask you this. Are you saying that violent protest has a history of succeeding in bringing about positive social change?
Also, this pacifist pedagogy idea empowering the establishment makes no sense. I'd argue the opposite. It is simple to crush an armed rebellion, but very difficult to stop a non-voilent resistance IF the commitment is there.
Last edited by blender; 12-06-2024 at 05:55 PM.
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Martin Luther King was committed to non-violent resistance. There were obviously multiple instances of violent acts throughout the Civil rights movement, but it is absolutely not a whitewash to say it was a non-violent movement at heart.
Let me ask you this. Are you saying that violent protest has a history of succeeding in bringing about positive social change?
Also, this pacifist pedagogy idea empowering the establishment makes no sense. I'd argue the opposite. It is simple to crush an armed rebellion, but very difficult to stop a non-voilent resistance IF the commitment is there.
Ok so you're aware then that he founded a paramilitary group to fight against the apartheid government? A group that would come to be labeled a terrorist organization by the apartheid regime That he very specifically condoned and enacted violent resistance?
His "I Am Prepared To Die Speech" from his trial for terrorism isn't as quoted as MLK's "I Have A Dream" because it is full of rhetoric like this:
"At the beginning of June 1961, after a long and anxious assessment of the South African situation, I, and some colleagues, came to the conclusion that as violence in this country was inevitable, it would be unrealistic and wrong for African leaders to continue preaching peace and non-violence at a time when the government met our peaceful demands with force.
This conclusion was not easily arrived at. It was only when all else had failed, when all channels of peaceful protest had been barred to us, that the decision was made to embark on violent forms of political struggle, and to form uMkhonto weSizwe. We did so not because we desired such a course, but solely because the government had left us with no other choice. "
He was of course imprisoned for decades after this, but the uMkhonto weSizwe would fight on during that time. And when the world decided that apartheid wasn't acceptable and pressured the South African government to release him, they obliged. He is collectively remembered as a hero, not a terrorist (unless you're Rob Anders) because we collectively agree that the thing he was fighting for was justified.
Party Elephant, I understand all of this.
Interestingly, despite Mandela's shift in beliefs, the apartheid regime was not undone by violent means.
My point is about efficacy. I don't believe that an armed struggle against a powerful oppressor is likely to be successful, and history tends to bear this out.
You probably haven't read King's "Stride Toward Freedom" as it out of print. Notable that it hasn't been available like most of his other work as it is the one where he outlines his argument for non-violent resistance. It's almost like the powers that be don't want people reading such things.
All this is debatable of course, and there are no absolutes, but I still stand by my point. Show me a time when violence worked.
Party Elephant, I understand all of this.
Interestingly, despite Mandela's shift in beliefs, the apartheid regime was not undone by violent means.
My point is about efficacy. I don't believe that an armed struggle against a powerful oppressor is likely to be successful, and history tends to bear this out.
I see, you're arguing efficacy and I'm arguing necessity. We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I was going to bring up the Irish War of Independence and the Haitian Revolution as those are two more armed struggles that I've read a lot about and would argue they too were both necessary and righteous causes. But I'm tired and it's getting late so I'd rather not put more effort into this. I do recommend "Avengers of the New World" by Laurent DuBois for a fascinating account of the Haitian Revolution if you're interested.
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You probably haven't read King's "Stride Toward Freedom" as it out of print. Notable that it hasn't been available like most of his other work as it is the one where he outlines his argument for non-violent resistance.
I haven't, but I'll see if I can get my hands on it at some point because that sounds like something I'd enjoy.
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Also falls in line with the correlation we're seeing where since about 2022 young men are moving notably more right, while young women are more left-learning and the rates of young women getting educated and landing in professional work is increasing while rates of men getting educated to the same level is declining.
I remember reading something about that. I believe it also mentioned that young men are also moving more towards religion, where women are moving more away from it.
psycnet, pepsi free, lanny mcdonald, looch city, rube cube, and a bunch of other folks who circle jerk each other how enlightened they are have made the off topic forum unbearable.
You are the 20% of people Cliff is referring to who do nothin but spread toxicity. Over an over it's complaining and targeting outgroups who don't agree with your political position. Everyone who voted for the UCP is an "Idiot" who doesn't care about anyone but themselves. This is simply not true. You don't have a monopoly on morality, but you sure act like it.
Why did you tell them? You are spoiling all the fun!
It is incredibly entertaining to watch some people align with radical or extremist groups that promote violence against business leaders and associate themselves with extreme left groups. Such groups often use rhetoric claiming intelligence or moral superiority to justify their actions, but their ideologies and methods are universally condemned by governments and societies worldwide.
But hey, just sit back and enjoy! Like I said, it very entertaining!!
Why did you tell them? You are spoiling all the fun!
It is incredibly entertaining to watch some people align with radical or extremist groups that promote violence against business leaders and associate themselves with extreme left groups. Such groups often use rhetoric claiming intelligence or moral superiority to justify their actions, but their ideologies and methods are universally condemned by governments and societies worldwide.
But hey, just sit back and enjoy! Like I said, it very entertaining!!
Found the guy who doesn’t know how to drive.
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Clever, compelling, but not convincing.
French Revolution was cataclysm nation-building and was followed by horrific loss of life. Also not particularly relevant to today's context, IMO.
Stonewall brought awareness to an issue, but arguably the peaceful protests that followed in memory achieved more.
And finally, the ANC did not overthrow the South African Apartheid regime by violent means. It was external pressure from the western world that forced the change.
I am not arguing that violent protest isn't justified, if the target is odious enough, or if conditions are dire enough, although there is a compelling argument that any victory gained through violence is tainted.
I appreciate the discussion though, as it is an interesting topic for me, and relevant in today's times given the massive inequity in our world, and the future problems we are facing with potentially catastrophic diasporas incoming due to global climate change.
Last edited by blender; 12-06-2024 at 11:52 PM.
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Why did you tell them? You are spoiling all the fun!
It is incredibly entertaining to watch some people align with radical or extremist groups that promote violence against business leaders and associate themselves with extreme left groups. Such groups often use rhetoric claiming intelligence or moral superiority to justify their actions, but their ideologies and methods are universally condemned by governments and societies worldwide.
But hey, just sit back and enjoy! Like I said, it very entertaining!!
Racism and transphobia are pretty universally condemned too but that hasn’t stopped you.
