Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[TheIronMaiden]

The only thing that is still worth complaining about is that they never changed that back stage heat into Punk vs Omega. They could have destroyed Kayfabe and had a dream match in one go. It would have propelled AEW into the stratosphere.

oh well.

[Blaster86]

In their defense on that one, it does sound like both Punk and Omega were very open to that. Omega's health probably played a bigger issue than anything else.

The only people who are looking worse and worse as this goes along are people in the AEW executive suite, of which Omega has said he stepped out of.

[trackercowe]

I would love to see Omega in WWE one day. That will probably never happen though, as his injury time will accrue like Ray Phoenix. The time he is missing now will be added onto his current contract. Then again he's already returned to New Japan, so perhaps all of it wouldn't count?

[Blaster86]

I think Omega will be a guy who will either never step foot in, or only at the very end like Sting, a WWE ring.


In truth, I just don't think he needs to do it to be considered an all time great. He was just so important to Japanese wrestling establishing a foothold in North America and in my opinion the key piece to making AEW legitimate (despite how poorly he was used imo) more so than any other single person. I don't think he'll feel pressure to do so.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

AEW is in dire need of any kind of senior leadership backstage. It's no wonder Cornette turned down Khan's offer to work backstage for the company. Then you have other workers with significant experience like Regal, Anderson, Blanchard, Kazarian, Steel, Cody, and Guerrero who have all left for various reasons. It feels like the inmates are running the asylum there, and there is a real lack of direction in the company. The in-ring work is still fine, because that creative freedom is allowed. Yet week after week there is more negativity being brought to the company. They need to bring in someone from outside the company to fix these issues.

We hear about more problems within AEW weekly than we have during the Khan/Helmsley era. I can't think of a single backstage issue that has occured in the WWE in years. Maybe they do a better job of keeping it under wraps, but look at someone like Shinsuke Nakamura who sat at home for months and we never heard a peep out of him. Compare that to Starks, Miro, and Malakai Black. They were pretty open about their dissatisfaction, two of which will likely never be seen on AEW programming again. Meanwhile Shinsuke was brought back seamlessly and people adore him. I find it wild Tony is so willing to let all these people sit at home and collect paycheques. The one thing he did do right was to fire Punk! Why is he holding all the rest up, they won't move the metrics like Punk did.

Also does anyone listen to the Stevie Richards podcast? Highly recommended. Very insightful and well-spoken... Richards loves Punk, and usually speaks highly of him.

Yeah, I love Stevie's Youtube channel, he does an amazing job of breaking specific moves or move sets down. Its clear he loves Bret Hart's work in the ring. He did a 20 minute video on Bret Hart's punches.


AEW just seems to be a back stage mess, and the wrestling is hit and miss for me, they have some brilliant matches, but its all over the map and they have a lot of really bad ideas when it comes to match structure.

[LIP MAN]

Growing pains for a new company and honestly Punk has been an issue almost everywhere he’s gone. Seems to have grown a lot since the latest issues and good on him. Omega/Punk could have been awesome. Given Omega’s style, affinity for TK/AEW and their more open structure with NJPW and other events. Never say never though.

I do have this feeling Cody will eventually return to AEW in his twilight. He really booked himself into a corner, but I don’t see it happening anytime soon for sooo many reasons.

Either way, it’s the first year of Netflix and HBO streaming starting. I see so much tribalism and vitriol; just think back to 2018 and prior when most wrestling outside of some NJPW was almost unwatchable week to week. There’s a ton of really strong stories, matches and tournaments all over the place. “Just Enjoy Wrestling” really is on my 2025 resolution list. It’s honestly never been better.

[CaptainCrunch]

It is growing pains, and at some point AEW is going to have to grow "Beyond" Tony's leadership group. I think its the biggest problem with AEW.



I don't know if I agree with you on Cody going back to AEW, I do see Dustin who is working without a contract returning to work for WWE to do a final run with his brother.



Its going to be interesting to see what happens on NetFlix with WWE now that the WWE network is being pulled. It was too bad as a vintage wrestling Junkie I enjoyed the easy access to the Library except for the heavily censored ECW stuff.


I'm still not watching as much wrestling as I used to. I mean for example 5 hours of WWE and PLE's is a lot and then you add in AEW. I find myself fastforwarding a lot.


I did find a bunch of old Stampede Wrestling episodes on Youtube and that's always a fun watch.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

It is growing pains, and at some point AEW is going to have to grow "Beyond" Tony's leadership group. I think its the biggest problem with AEW.



I don't know if I agree with you on Cody going back to AEW, I do see Dustin who is working without a contract returning to work for WWE to do a final run with his brother.



Its going to be interesting to see what happens on NetFlix with WWE now that the WWE network is being pulled. It was too bad as a vintage wrestling Junkie I enjoyed the easy access to the Library except for the heavily censored ECW stuff.


I'm still not watching as much wrestling as I used to. I mean for example 5 hours of WWE and PLE's is a lot and then you add in AEW. I find myself fastforwarding a lot.


I did find a bunch of old Stampede Wrestling episodes on Youtube and that's always a fun watch.

For a while I was watching every Raw and every Dynamite but you're right it is too much wrestling. For me, two hours of raw and a monthly PPV is plenty of wrestling. Otherwise I just watch clips to keep up with AEW and SmackDown.

[Blaster86]

We are talking like this was the Khan's first business venture in the realm of sports or entertainment. This isn't. And this sort of cockamamie management is something we see in some of their other ventures.

I don't know enough to speak to Fulham, I just know they're not great but the Jags are an absolute joke on and off the field.

Again, I cannot understate how ####ing insane it is if what Nemeth is saying has any modicum of truth to it. Members of the AEW executive suite, whether that's the Bucks, Tony or someone at this point unknown, went to an employee of their company and instructed them the provoke and rile up THEIR BIGGEST STAR. CM Punk was their money maker. Him existing made everything better for everyone around him. Warts and all. And for reasons beyond me they went out of their way to piss him off. They instructed members of their roster to go out of their way to piss him off. They didn't have to work with Punk. They didn't have to interact with Punk. They just had to count the ####ing money. He got them their biggest gates. He got them their highest ratings. He got them an entire new ####ing show for which they got more money for. And they couldn't do it. Now the main show has an average viewership that is floating around half of what it was at its peak. The secondary show is closing in on cancellation. One of the shows has already apparently been cancelled. Their arenas are empty. They're cancelling shows to move to smaller venues. And the guy they pushed out because "he couldn't work with anybody" is ####ing beloved and working with people who he had legitimate animosity with for over a decade. Do they all like eachother? Probably not, but they're making fist fulls of money.

Not only could they not just sort out their #### and make their money mountain, they then tossed the guy they sicced on Punk to provoke him out into the ####ing cold. Wat. Waaaat. WAT.

Absolutely mickey mouse.

[trackercowe]

I think there's more to the story of Rhodes leaving as well. I can't see him ever going back. It doesn't seem like AEW and Cody ended on the best of terms. His booking at the end was poor as well. The best booking (and feud) to date was MJF/Punk, but that opportunity is now gone. Compare that to the atrocious booking with Cole/MJF (with UE randomly included), the feud everyone wants to see end. Meanwhile they continue to run it into the ground, wasting their biggest name. That's a good microcosm of where the company is at now.

[Blaster86]

AEW has more programs and feuds that people are sick of and want to see end than things people want to watch.


Jericho. Cole/MJF. dEaTh RiDeRs. Mercedes Mone.

It's incredibly telling that three more 'WWE' guys have come in and are immediately their best TV in Benjamin, MVP and Lashley.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

AEW has more programs and feuds that people are sick of and want to see end than things people want to watch.


Jericho. Cole/MJF. dEaTh RiDeRs. Mercedes Mone.

It's incredibly telling that three more 'WWE' guys have come in and are immediately their best TV in Benjamin, MVP and Lashley.

Yeah, they've completely derailed MJF's momentum in the last year and a half. We might be to the point now where he has to jump ship to WWE when his current contract is up in order to regain it.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, they've completely derailed MJF's momentum in the last year and a half. We might be to the point now where he has to jump ship to WWE when his current contract is up in order to regain it.

That would be monumentally sad from an AEW perspective because he was their proof of concept. AEW built MJF. MJF is their biggest home grown name and for a period of time there was the best and biggest heel in the industry before the Bloodline really kicked up the 4d3d3d3.


I think they need to find a way to make him work. MJF is too damn talented and for all the flaws I think AEW has, they've got him at or near the top before and I think they can do it again.

If they can't, they really need to just pack it in. They're TNA with more fanfare.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

That would be monumentally sad from an AEW perspective because he was their proof of concept. AEW built MJF. MJF is their biggest home grown name and for a period of time there was the best and biggest heel in the industry before the Bloodline really kicked up the 4d3d3d3.

I agree, but they'll need to build him up again before people are willing to take him seriously.

There was still meat on the bone for his feud with Garcia, but they nerfed it to continue this stupid feud with Cole/UK.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

AEW has more programs and feuds that people are sick of and want to see end than things people want to watch.


Jericho. Cole/MJF. dEaTh RiDeRs. Mercedes Mone.

It's incredibly telling that three more 'WWE' guys have come in and are immediately their best TV in Benjamin, MVP and Lashley.

Its actually amazing how much Mone has been exposed in AEW, if feels like she was heavily protected in WWE and NXT. Her personality work and her mic work is really really bad, and she's just not that interesting.


I would be fine if AEW told Jericho to go on a long long tour with Fozzy, and not come back as an in ring performer.



With Cole, its weird, I'm not sure if he really wants to be a wrestler anymore or a game playing tik tokker.

[mr_luck07]

Anybody watching Deadline today?

[LIP MAN]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

We are talking like this was the Khan's first business venture in the realm of sports or entertainment. This isn't. And this sort of cockamamie management is something we see in some of their other ventures.

I don't know enough to speak to Fulham, I just know they're not great but the Jags are an absolute joke on and off the field.

Again, I cannot understate how ####ing insane it is if what Nemeth is saying has any modicum of truth to it. Members of the AEW executive suite, whether that's the Bucks, Tony or someone at this point unknown, went to an employee of their company and instructed them the provoke and rile up THEIR BIGGEST STAR. CM Punk was their money maker. Him existing made everything better for everyone around him. Warts and all. And for reasons beyond me they went out of their way to piss him off. They instructed members of their roster to go out of their way to piss him off. They didn't have to work with Punk. They didn't have to interact with Punk. They just had to count the ####ing money. He got them their biggest gates. He got them their highest ratings. He got them an entire new ####ing show for which they got more money for. And they couldn't do it. Now the main show has an average viewership that is floating around half of what it was at its peak. The secondary show is closing in on cancellation. One of the shows has already apparently been cancelled. Their arenas are empty. They're cancelling shows to move to smaller venues. And the guy they pushed out because "he couldn't work with anybody" is ####ing beloved and working with people who he had legitimate animosity with for over a decade. Do they all like eachother? Probably not, but they're making fist fulls of money.

Not only could they not just sort out their #### and make their money mountain, they then tossed the guy they sicced on Punk to provoke him out into the ####ing cold. Wat. Waaaat. WAT.

Absolutely mickey mouse.

We get it, you’re WWE thick and thin.

The issues Nemeth have are because of Punks lack of professionalism and wanting to keep talent off of Collision. Including Nemeth. He was a real problem for them in terms of who and who couldn’t be booked. Again, young company and they had issues with their legal team. Pretty odd hoops to jump through which eventually was a waste of their time quite frankly.

They LITERALLY TRIED to do what you’re mentioning, but Phil messed that up by getting frustrated backstage AGAIN. And TK showed some backbone by letting him go, which is the right move, by the way. I think people forget Punk was showing some warts, especially in ring, and they’ve been working to build from their youth again.

[trackercowe]

You can't overlook the positives Punk brought to AEW. Many of the young talent in the company has given him heaps of praise since he left. Darby, Starks, MJF, Danhausen, Britt Baker all loved the guy. This has held true to WWE as well. Look what Trick Williams said about him
.

CM Punk is mentoring NXT talent in and out of the ring, reveals Trick Williams.

"I didn’t meet CM Punk until after the rumors about his character were brought about from other places... all I’m gonna say is that dude, Punk, man, good dude, like, solid. You can just tell when some people are just genuine, and he’s very genuine.

"He gives us real advice, too. He talks about how to handle yourself, in the ring, outside the ring, with everything it takes to become a superstar... He’s] been very helpful for a lot of us."

(Source: No-Contest Wrestling Podcast)

Many in WWE have said the same thing. They heard stories about Punk's past, and were leery of him. Yet just as in AEW he's been a mentor to many backstage, and has been good for morale. Realistically his problems in AEW come down to a select few who antagonized him. AEW is fraught with backstage issues, where the inmates run the asylum. These issues are still present after Punk left, which speaks to Khan having no control backstage. If you listened to Punk's interview with Ariel Helwani that much of the problems stem from Khan's complete lack of control and inexperience in the business. Punk repeatedly asked Tony to step in and "do something", but Khan is feckless with his action figures.

Punk was unable to control his emotions and made mistakes which led to his firing. Yet if Tony actually laid down the law, or gave Punk control of Collision then the issues would have sorted itself out. The Bucks crew wanted Punk out, and they got exactly what they wanted.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

We get it, you’re WWE thick and thin.

Really? That's what you get from my lamenting AEW can't sort its #### out? Do I prefer WWE right now? Yeah, but that's a large majority of wrestling fans. Am I married to WWE? No, if AEW got great and put on a program I wanted to watch I'd be on that like white on rice.

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

The issues Nemeth have are because of Punks lack of professionalism and wanting to keep talent off of Collision.

Nemeth says what his problems are. He says his real issue is that AEW sat back and did nothing after encouraging him to goad Punk into something. Collision was Punk's show. He was given the keys to the car. He got to choose who did and didn't appear. That's what bookers do. Was he making good booking decisions based on programming? No. He was being a petty carny. But acting like that isn't the exact same thing AEW did to Nemeth immediately after for Rampage and Dynamite as well is some silly stuff.

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

Including Nemeth. He was a real problem for them in terms of who and who couldn’t be booked. Again, young company and they had issues with their legal team. Pretty odd hoops to jump through which eventually was a waste of their time quite frankly.

Again. Not a young company. Their head of legal at the time had been with the Khans in the Jaguars organization for years. Answering a complaint of harassment from an employee is not an "odd hoop" to jump through. The only thing that makes it odd is that the harassment started after an executive in your company prompted the complainant to attack the executive publicly.

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

They LITERALLY TRIED to do what you’re mentioning, but Phil messed that up by getting frustrated backstage AGAIN. And TK showed some backbone by letting him go, which is the right move, by the way. I think people forget Punk was showing some warts, especially in ring, and they’ve been working to build from their youth again.

So this is the issue that we have. Punk has shown us to be nothing if not a reliable narrator in this entire saga. He has explained exactly what happened, point for point going back to before Brawl Out. There is no reason to assume he is lying, exaggerating or making anything up. Every time something has come out giving more information into the goings-on for this period of time, it has backed up more of Punk's side of the story.

Punk didn't get "frustrated" he told Perry to stop being an idiot. He then told Tony to make sure Perry stopped being an idiot. Tony, as is his usual way of handling things, did nothing. So Punk did, as he said he would, and handled it himself. This forced Tony to actually act like a boss, and that if he'd done it before Brawl Out would likely still see CM Punk wrestling on Wednesday nights.

Is CM Punk slowing down? Oh my yes. Is he going to be wrestling 5 years from now? I have my doubts. But he has a mind for the business and an eagreness to teach. You had the potential to have CM Punk and Bryan Danielson as your backstage leadership and developmental minds. And all this doesn't even touch on the fact that he was, in the present, THEIR BIGGEST DRAW.

All Tony had to do was go to Hangman and the Bucks and say "knock it off, you're riling up the show pony" and he didn't. He refused. It's mind blowing.

[SuperMatt18]

In the end Tony Kahn not being able to control his locker room has been a huge issue in AEWs struggles the last couple years and it's not exclusive to CM Punk.

Punk made mistakes, and has always been a bit Petty, but I do believe he went into AEW with the right attitude but others didn't want him there and that triggered it all IMO.

I don't think Bucks ever wanted him there because they knew he'd become bigger stars than them and they don't want anybody taking the spotlight.

Then I think you had the faction that didn't want him there because of his history with Colt Cabana which was also stupid because that was years ago.

Even now with Punk gone I still feel like there is still some resentment between the AEW originals who were more Indy/NJPW guys that they wanted to have their own thing and the guys who jumped ship from WWE.

And I think lots of the ex-WWE guys are just mad because Kahn likely made a bunch of promises in terms of bookings and title opportunities they just never were granted.