[News] Kirkland done for the season. ACL surgery

[bigrangy]

There goes the team’s last top 6 forward

Losing Mantha already hurt but now the team’s down its two most productive guys.

Lots of opportunity for someone to step up but not sure who

[Reggie Dunlop]

Maybe Vegas will give Schwindt back.

[cam_calderon]

If only we had a centre producing well in the American league...

[Locke]

I have to say...this is one of the more disappointing moments of the season.

He was doing so well and with all of the other considerations like his AHL time, his age, it was a really nice story and it was a lot of fun to cheer for him.

This actually really sucks. Sorry Kirkland.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

There goes the team’s last top 6 forward

Losing Mantha already hurt but now the team’s down its two most productive guys.

Lots of opportunity for someone to step up but not sure who

As bad as the offence is,, and as fun as Kirkland's story is, Kirkland and Mantha were nowhere near the teams two most productive guys. Like it or not, the most productive guys on the team are the two whipping boys Kadri and Huberdeau, plus Weegar and Andersson.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

As bad as the offence is,, and as fun as Kirkland's story is, Kirkland and Mantha were nowhere near the teams two most productive guys. Like it or not, the most productive guys on the team are the two whipping boys Kadri and Huberdeau, plus Weegar and Andersson.

He isn't necessarily wrong.


Kadri: 26GP 8G 8A 16PTS
Huberdeau: 26GP 8G 7A 15PTS
Mantha: 13GP 4G 3A 7PTS - that's basically even with Huberdeau's production on a GPG, APG and PPG rate. He even was demoted to the 4th line for a while too. He was streaky, and you have to be careful of small sample sizes, but he is right there at the top of the Flames scorers for PPG. I don't remember where he was when he got hurt, however - so he could have been the most productive guy at the time of injury.



Kirkland has been a surprisingly productive - two more games than Sharangovich, but even in points. Just a point behind Kuzmenko, but having played 4 less games. Even in GP with Coronato, and just 2 points behind him. Considering who he plays with and the ice-time that he gets, he is a very surprising scorer that probably sees much better numbers than a lot of top 6 players in some metrics. Plus, his shootout goals don't count on his scoring stats. Kirkland has strangely become a very effective player for the Flames, even if his underlying metrics are poor (or were poor - not sure where he is at at the time of his injury, but they definitely were rather poor).



I get BigRangy's argument here, but I would have phrased it as: "... two of the most productive guys." rather than "down its two most productive guys." However, you can definitely form an argument to show that they were indeed two of the most productive guys on the team, especially if you use deployment, TOI and GP.



Either way, I would look at re-signing Kirkland as he seemed like a great team guy, exceeded expectations when it came to depth scoring (on a team that has a lot of trouble scoring) and helped win games in the shootout. An extension for another 2 years at a small raise would be about right to me.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

He isn't necessarily wrong.


Kadri: 26GP 8G 8A 16PTS
Huberdeau: 26GP 8G 7A 15PTS
Mantha: 13GP 4G 3A 7PTS - that's basically even with Huberdeau's production on a GPG, APG and PPG rate. He even was demoted to the 4th line for a while too. He was streaky, and you have to be careful of small sample sizes, but he is right there at the top of the Flames scorers for PPG. I don't remember where he was when he got hurt, however - so he could have been the most productive guy at the time of injury.



Kirkland has been a surprisingly productive - two more games than Sharangovich, but even in points. Just a point behind Kuzmenko, but having played 4 less games. Even in GP with Coronato, and just 2 points behind him. Considering who he plays with and the ice-time that he gets, he is a very surprising scorer that probably sees much better numbers than a lot of top 6 players in some metrics. Plus, his shootout goals don't count on his scoring stats. Kirkland has strangely become a very effective player for the Flames, even if his underlying metrics are poor (or were poor - not sure where he is at at the time of his injury, but they definitely were rather poor).



I get BigRangy's argument here, but I would have phrased it as: "... two of the most productive guys." rather than "down its two most productive guys." However, you can definitely form an argument to show that they were indeed two of the most productive guys on the team, especially if you use deployment, TOI and GP.



Either way, I would look at re-signing Kirkland as he seemed like a great team guy, exceeded expectations when it came to depth scoring (on a team that has a lot of trouble scoring) and helped win games in the shootout. An extension for another 2 years at a small raise would be about right to me.

Mantha was a whipping boy until his injury. Looked great in a couple games then slacked right off. Kirkland was effective in his role.

But no, neither of them are the two most productive guys on the team. Not even two "of the" most productive guys on the team (at the time of Mantha's injury, Rasmus was, by a fair margin).

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Mantha was a whipping boy until his injury. Looked great in a couple games then slacked right off. Kirkland was effective in his role.

But no, neither of them are the two most productive guys on the team. Not even two "of the" most productive guys on the team (at the time of Mantha's injury, Rasmus was, by a fair margin).

Two of the most productive players would definitely fit. I don't begin to understand why you would take issue with that terminology. They are much closer to "The two most productive players" vs "Not even close".



As for the whipping boy - sure, Mantha was that - so is Huberdeau and Kadri most nights, so not sure where the difference lies.

[transplant99]

Productivity ppg wise...

Mantha is tied for 4th

Kirkland is 12th

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Productivity ppg wise...

Mantha is tied for 4th

Kirkland is 12th

Yeah, I don't get the hate for Mantha. He was better than I expected. I'd go so far as to say that if he was playing, he may have been the difference in at least a couple of those close games and a couple of the losses could have been flipped to wins. He isn't a guy that makes an impact every night, but wasn't useless either. As fun as Kirkland is to root for, I think Mantha is a more consequential player (aside from in shootouts).

[D as in David]

The Flames' offensive stats are so comically low that one good game by any player would move them into the "one of the most productive players" category.

[Toonage]

^ Right?? This is more a condemnation of who is playing

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Two of the most productive players would definitely fit. I don't begin to understand why you would take issue with that terminology. They are much closer to "The two most productive players" vs "Not even close".



As for the whipping boy - sure, Mantha was that - so is Huberdeau and Kadri most nights, so not sure where the difference lies.

In their production.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah, I don't get the hate for Mantha. He was better than I expected. I'd go so far as to say that if he was playing, he may have been the difference in at least a couple of those close games and a couple of the losses could have been flipped to wins. He isn't a guy that makes an impact every night, but wasn't useless either. As fun as Kirkland is to root for, I think Mantha is a more consequential player (aside from in shootouts).

He was great in his first, say, three games. Then his foot came right off the gas, which I gather is his MO. He worked his way down the lineup pretty quickly before he got hurt.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by D as in David

The Flames' offensive stats are so comically low that one good game by any player would move them into the "one of the most productive players" category.

Absolutely agreed, right now Kadri is trending to hit 50 points on the season. There is a very real chance no one on this team reaches 50 points this year.

Edit: Both the blackhawks and sharks who last year only had ~180 goals all year had at least 1 player hit 60 points each (Bédard and Granlund). Flames are trending for 208 goals.

[Enoch Root]

Mantha was 4th, but very small sample size that was still being supported by the good first game. Would he still be 4th if he were still playing? Doubt it, personally (and I am not a hater)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Absolutely agreed, right now Kadri is trending to hit 50 points on the season. There is a very real chance no one on this team reaches 50 points this year.

Edit: Both the blackhawks and sharks who last year only had ~180 goals all year had at least 1 player hit 60 points each (Bédard and Granlund). Flames are trending for 208 goals.

I suspect at least couple pick it up past 50 in the second half. Kadri probably will be one. He's gotten points in 3 straight, 8 points in his last 10. So maybe he's heating up a bit.

[activeStick]

Nick Kypreos, Jason Bourne and Sammy McKee gave a head nod on Kyper & Bourne and spoke a little bit about Costco as well earlier this week on his injury as they were big fans of his story and journey and talked about him earlier this season as Kirkland was scoring those big OT goals for the Flames.

[jg13]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1865182670369800693

[Locke]

I love that he loves the memes!!

Get your ass back here Costco! Our return policy is not so generous!