In a big way I hate it, but Amazon is truly great

[blankall]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Remember "monster" cables from future shop? Like quadruple the price of regular cables and just mercilessly pushed by their sales guys.

I think that was the brand I was thinking of, not Mad Catz. I used to with at a cell phone store and saw some of the markups. For example, a Samsung brand charger, would cost the company like $20-30 and sell for $40-50. The off brand stuff like Monster would cost the company $5-15 and sell for $40. As a sales person you'd get 40% of the profit. Big incentive to push the off brand accessories.

If you did a cell phone plan, you'd get $40. If you sold the plan with the case, warranty, and extra charger, you'd be looking at a $125-200 commission, and the higher margin items you pushed the bigger the cut you'd get.

Now people can just avoid the whole scene. I paid $10 for a well reviewed, from Amazon, case I am very happy with. I buy charger cables 3 at a time for $20.

Anyone who thinks the pre online retail world was some hay day for consumers needs to take the rose colored glasses off.

Next try using a physical map when you are going somewhere you've never been before.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by blankall

People are really romanticizing the pre-internet retail experience. Particularly when it came to electronics accessories. Those were always the biggest crap shoot. The retail, particularly electronics, store would absolutely gauge you. In the early 2000s, you'd pay $40 for a cord to charge your phone. Sometimes as much as $80 for a branded charger. You could find unbranded ones for $20-40, but those would be an absolute crap shoot as to their quality.

If you wanted an HDMI cord, you got totally upsold on questionable brands like "Mad Catz". The sales guys would all push brands like that, as the markup was significantly higher than the big electronics brands (like Samsung) products. As a consumer you had no idea what was real or not. The quality on everything was just generally bad. Even that $80 charger would end up frayed with the cord half pulled out within a couple of months.

Now people are getting upset at Amazon, because they're paying $5-10 for an accessory and it might be amazing or it might the quality of a $5-10 accessory. Even then, you can mitigate the risk by just paying $10-20 for a brand name accessory from someone like Anker.

And it all came in that horrific packaging that needs big scissors and then is unreturnable

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by blankall

People are really romanticizing the pre-internet retail experience. Particularly when it came to electronics accessories. Those were always the biggest crap shoot. The retail, particularly electronics, store would absolutely gauge you. In the early 2000s, you'd pay $40 for a cord to charge your phone. Sometimes as much as $80 for a branded charger. You could find unbranded ones for $20-40, but those would be an absolute crap shoot as to their quality.

If you wanted an HDMI cord, you got totally upsold on questionable brands like "Mad Catz". The sales guys would all push brands like that, as the markup was significantly higher than the big electronics brands (like Samsung) products. As a consumer you had no idea what was real or not. The quality on everything was just generally bad. Even that $80 charger would end up frayed with the cord half pulled out within a couple of months.

Now people are getting upset at Amazon, because they're paying $5-10 for an accessory and it might be amazing or it might the quality of a $5-10 accessory. Even then, you can mitigate the risk by just paying $10-20 for a brand name accessory from someone like Anker.

Oh yeah, that was terrible. But Amazon 5 years ago was better than Amazon now.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Remember "monster" cables from future shop? Like quadruple the price of regular cables and just mercilessly pushed by their sales guys.

The original Beats stuff was engendered and manufactured by Monster, and was also overpriced ####e.

[Finger Cookin]

I find it interesting that this discussion of Amazon's merits has become about how bad brick and mortar retail experiences could be in the past (they absolutely could be) and how personally convenient using Amazon is. And not about all of the retailers and jobs wiped out by it's "efficient distribution of goods" and reduced need for labor...to the financial benefit of largely 2 people. Bezos and his ex.

Gotta love those next day deliveries while settling in to watch Ty Sheridan TV show #35 though, right?

[photon]

I remember when Monoprice burst onto the scene and suddenly you could get cables for way less. I got a 15' DVI-D cable once that would have cost hundreds in Calgary.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I find it interesting that this discussion of Amazon's merits has become about how bad brick and mortar retail experiences could be in the past (they absolutely could be) and how personally convenient using Amazon is. And not about all of the retailers and jobs wiped out by it's "efficient distribution of goods" and reduced need for labor...to the financial benefit of largely 2 people. Bezos and his ex.

Gotta love those next day deliveries while settling in to watch Ty Sheridan TV show #35 though, right?

Amazon aren't the first large retailer to purchase/kill off smaller competitors and won't be the last. There is competition in any business. If you don't like it, buy local and don't give a cent to Bezos.

Pretty sure Sheridan shows are on Paramount, also - unless that was an unrelated tangnet.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by blankall

People are really romanticizing the pre-internet retail experience. Particularly when it came to electronics accessories. Those were always the biggest crap shoot. The retail, particularly electronics, store would absolutely gauge you. In the early 2000s, you'd pay $40 for a cord to charge your phone. Sometimes as much as $80 for a branded charger. You could find unbranded ones for $20-40, but those would be an absolute crap shoot as to their quality.

If you wanted an HDMI cord, you got totally upsold on questionable brands like "Mad Catz". The sales guys would all push brands like that, as the markup was significantly higher than the big electronics brands (like Samsung) products. As a consumer you had no idea what was real or not. The quality on everything was just generally bad. Even that $80 charger would end up frayed with the cord half pulled out within a couple of months.

Now people are getting upset at Amazon, because they're paying $5-10 for an accessory and it might be amazing or it might the quality of a $5-10 accessory. Even then, you can mitigate the risk by just paying $10-20 for a brand name accessory from someone like Anker.

But we now have the internet. Which is a treasure trove for product information. Longing for the days of brick and mortar shopping doesn’t mean the internet is useless.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Remember "monster" cables from future shop? Like quadruple the price of regular cables and just mercilessly pushed by their sales guys.

They turned around and made Beetz headphones. The same overpriced crap (rumour is they weighted them to be heavy and feel expensive)

People love buying those pieces of crap.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I find it interesting that this discussion of Amazon's merits has become about how bad brick and mortar retail experiences could be in the past (they absolutely could be) and how personally convenient using Amazon is. And not about all of the retailers and jobs wiped out by it's "efficient distribution of goods" and reduced need for labor...to the financial benefit of largely 2 people. Bezos and his ex.

Gotta love those next day deliveries while settling in to watch Ty Sheridan TV show #35 though, while having your dinner delivered from some ghost kitchen via DoorDash before heading to bed in an endlessly monotonous row of stucco housingright?

But hey, we can all go to Europe next summer for vacation and enjoy what a real city is like for a change, I guess

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I find it interesting that this discussion of Amazon's merits has become about how bad brick and mortar retail experiences could be in the past (they absolutely could be) and how personally convenient using Amazon is. And not about all of the retailers and jobs wiped out by it's "efficient distribution of goods" and reduced need for labor...to the financial benefit of largely 2 people. Bezos and his ex.

Gotta love those next day deliveries while settling in to watch Ty Sheridan TV show #35 though, right?

In the past someone had to put up capital for a storefront, hire a staff, then order the goods from china (or insert whatever country good came from, certainly/usually not local) and start selling in the storefront. They also had to pay insurance, utility bills, etc. The barrier to entry was massive.

Now the same person can setup a website and do that exact same thing almost overnight.

Sure retail selling jobs are in decline as a result. But these are not the jobs we want our world to be developing. Having someone standing around in best buy chatting all day and occasionally talking to someone about the "best TV" isn't productive for society or a good use of their time. They produce nothing in this scenario.

It also isn't a good use of time getting in your car, driving 20 minutes across town each way, to buy a cable for $10. Now sitting on a message board also is a big waste of time, and judging by how much people are on here maybe they have nothing to do but waste time and it explains the desire to drive around buying nic nacks and widgets!

It's also not a good use of land/real restate to build storefront to sell these things. Nor the parking lots. Nor the pollution driving around all day to malls/stores. (Yes Amazon , etc shipping packaging has to get a lot better then tricking people into thinking its fine because "Cardboard is Recyclable")

This doesn't even include the ability for people to get their goods to market quickly and effectively. In the past you want to sell your niche good you are begging a big box store to give you product shelving or setting up your own store. (And why are we more accepting of land based big box stores then amazon? Were we happier when the Waltons got all the profit vs Bezos?)

Now you can sell from your garage in minutes setting up a website and accepting online payments.

You don't have to use Amazon to buy your goods. Everything they sell is available on another site and the majority locally/within Canada businesses . Don't buy the knockoffs, support local (websites) and you can be part of the solution. Don't put your retirement savings with funds that buy Amazon.

Except you don't want to pay more or wait longer for delivery and Amazon is great at doing those things so you vote with your wallet and continue to use them.

Amazon and Walmart didn't kill the small, local seller. Consumers did by voting with their wallet. They wanted cheaper, faster goods.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by photon

I remember when Monoprice burst onto the scene and suddenly you could get cables for way less. I got a 15' DVI-D cable once that would have cost hundreds in Calgary.

I recall the days when toslink, component, HDMI, etc were majorly overpriced at Future Shop, Best Buy, Visions, etc and cables of all kinds have become much more affordable once Amazon came on the scene.

I use Amazon a lot but I usually make a list and try to order a bunch of items at once. Still Amazon will ship a lot of these items separately and I wish they would consolidate the shipments to reduce the amount of boxes. I hate seeing a box arrive for a $10 item.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

In the past someone had to put up capital for a storefront, hire a staff, then order the goods from china (or insert whatever country good came from, certainly/usually not local) and start selling in the storefront. They also had to pay insurance, utility bills, etc. The barrier to entry was massive.

Now the same person can setup a website and do that exact same thing almost overnight.

Sure retail selling jobs are in decline as a result. But these are not the jobs we want our world to be developing. Having someone standing around in best buy chatting all day and occasionally talking to someone about the "best TV" isn't productive for society or a good use of their time. They produce nothing in this scenario.

It also isn't a good use of time getting in your car, driving 20 minutes across town each way, to buy a cable for $10. Now sitting on a message board also is a big waste of time, and judging by how much people are on here maybe they have nothing to do but waste time and it explains the desire to drive around buying nic nacks and widgets!

It's also not a good use of land/real restate to build storefront to sell these things. Nor the parking lots. Nor the pollution driving around all day to malls/stores. (Yes Amazon , etc shipping packaging has to get a lot better then tricking people into thinking its fine because "Cardboard is Recyclable")

This doesn't even include the ability for people to get their goods to market quickly and effectively. In the past you want to sell your niche good you are begging a big box store to give you product shelving or setting up your own store. (And why are we more accepting of land based big box stores then amazon? Were we happier when the Waltons got all the profit vs Bezos?)

Now you can sell from your garage in minutes setting up a website and accepting online payments.

You don't have to use Amazon to buy your goods. Everything they sell is available on another site and the majority locally/within Canada businesses . Don't buy the knockoffs, support local (websites) and you can be part of the solution. Don't put your retirement savings with funds that buy Amazon.

Except you don't want to pay more or wait longer for delivery and Amazon is great at doing those things so you vote with your wallet and continue to use them.

Amazon and Walmart didn't kill the small, local seller. Consumers did by voting with their wallet. They wanted cheaper, faster goods.

So your position is that there shouldn’t be any storefront, restaurants, offices, warehouses, or any other use of real estate where the majority of the work could be either done in or delivered to someone’s home?

You suggested people go to these places because they like wasting time, but being so passionately against any in-person social interaction makes it seem like this is less a justification on environmental or economic grounds and more about justifying a preference based entirely on catering toward a crippling social anxiety.

You talk like drop shipping is some worthy contribution to society compared to working retail. It’s really not. If anything, it’s leeching. And you’re making the same type of argument about the prevalence of digital storefronts as people do with AI art, but in both cases, an incredibly low barrier to entry doesn’t lead to better, it just leads to more crap.

There’s no shortage of literature on the damage big players like Amazon and Walmart do, whether from environmental grounds, how they treat employees, or the distraction of small towns and mom and pop shops. If you want to say that’s all good because you don’t have to talk to someone when you order a 10-pack of HDMI cables… that’s cool, but I don’t think most people think social interaction is the scariest thing they do in a day.

[powderjunkie]

The real evil is mindless consumerism in general, regardless of procurement mechanism.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The real evil is mindless consumerism in general, regardless of procurement mechanism.

Ok there Yoko

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Cappy

They turned around and made Beetz headphones. The same overpriced crap (rumour is they weighted them to be heavy and feel expensive)

People love buying those pieces of crap.

The Monster Beats headphone story is an interesting one. Worth reading some time.

Basically the son of the owner of Monster wanted to push the company to the next level and did a collaboration with Dr. Dre. Dre wasn't stupid, and demanded everything, including the IP of the headphones and the son foolishly agreed. That move basically destroyed the company after the 1-2 year collaboration and Dre took the headphones/manufacturing etc. somewhere else and Monster couldn't continue advertising they were the ones to do Beats.

Monster is starting to pop up again. Although wildly overpriced, I still have a few things Monster branded that have held up. I got them for steep discount because I knew someone who sold them. We split the commission difference with him and paid him back. As much as some of you are talking about how bad Monster was, keep in mind, the difference between branded, basic and value brand were brutal back then. The disposable cheap stuff we have now still outperforms a lot of those cheap and basic brands offered back then for a fraction of the price of what they sold back then.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

And not about all of the retailers and jobs wiped out by it's "efficient distribution of goods" and reduced need for labor...to the financial benefit of largely 2 people. Bezos and his ex.

If people didn’t find a benefit to using Amazon, they wouldn’t use it. Two people get a huge benefit from Amazon, and hundreds of millions get smaller benefits, but significant enough that they prefer it to the alterative. I’m done all my Christmas shopping and I didn’t need to experience the horrors of going to a mall this time of year.

You can make the same argument about Costco vs Co-op or Safeway. The Costco model is more efficient and attractive to shoppers. Co-op and Safeway stores will survive if enough people are willing to pay a premium for groceries and jobs in their neighbourhood. I use both, and would be sad if my local Co-op closed. But that doesn’t mean I’m willing to increase my grocery bill by 25+ per cent in order to cut Costco out of the equation.

[Jason14h]

Costco is fine because they pay the worker more . Let’s not pretend the fake outrage against Amazon is anything other then “they treat their workers poorly “

Which is a completely fine and valid reason not to use Amazon . I will never invest 1$ in Walmart nor step into a Walmart unless it is my only resort because I think their business model of abandoning small towns after driving out all local business is beyond scummy

Amazon - I guess doesnt bug me as much vs my personal benefit and retirement returns (who am I kidding I love Amazon my account had 450 individuals orders this year - not items - orders )

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The real evil is mindless consumerism in general, regardless of procurement mechanism.

But what about the friends we made along the way?

I'm going to miss watching all the Black Friday brawls that came out of the US every year. Online shopping has basically wiped that out.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Costco is fine because they pay the worker more . Let’s not pretend the fake outrage against Amazon is anything other then “they treat their workers poorly “

Which companies are Costco paying their employees noticeably more than that you’re aware of?

Which is a completely fine and valid reason not to use Amazon . I will never invest 1$ in Walmart nor step into a Walmart unless it is my only resort because I think their business model of abandoning small towns after driving out all local business is beyond scummy

Amazon - I guess doesnt bug me as much vs my personal benefit and retirement returns (who am I kidding I love Amazon my account had 450 individuals orders this year - not items - orders )

What is your reasoning for considering what Walmart does as different from what Amazon does?