NFL Offseason Player Movement

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

He does, and has redefined zone blocking, well, him and that OLine coach that spent a decade there. Shanahan is a very interesting coach in that he does some things exceptionally well, and his ground game alone makes them compedititve year in and year out, but they are well below average in drafting which is usually the key to keeping your job as long as he has.

What makes you say that?

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

What makes you say that?

Assuming you need three years to see how a pick prevails here are the first three pics in the last few years:

2003:
1 George Foster Georgia
2 Terry Pierce Kansas State
4 Quentin Griffin Oklahoma
Foster is a decent starter, Pierce was way to slow and Griffin was to small.

2002
1 Ashley Lelie Hawaii
2 Clinton Portis Miami (FL)
3 Dorsett Davis Mississippi State
Lelie was a bust for a 1st pick, Portis was a big hit, but partially because of hte system he fell into, and Davis is a bust.

2001
1 Willie Middlebrooks Minnesota
2 Paul Toviessi Marshall
3 Reggie Hayward Iowa State
Willie was a bomb, Toviessi played I little but not worth a 2, and Hayward was ok for a 3.

2000
1 Deltha O'Neal California
2 Ian Gold Michigan
2 Kenoy Kennedy Arkansas
Deltha was a bomb, Gold was a hit and Kennedy was decent.


So of these the first round picks were ONeal, Middlebrooks, Foster and Lelie. All brutal first round picks.

They have had a few pics that have worked out very well later in the draft, but in my opinion overall below average. It's hard knocking the broncos like this, but I have been frustrated with some of the picks that have been made. Many picks have come out of nowhere, ONeal and Middlebrooks were projected #2's and they gamble like crazy on head cases such has Maurice Clarett at #3.

[Displaced Flames fan]

O'Neal has been a starter in Cincinatti since Shanahan traded him to the Bengals. How that is a bomb will take some 'splaining.

Middlebrooks was a bust. Foster is a starting OT in the NFL...that's not a brutal pick. Lelie, not a bust, but not a great pick...agreed there.

You minimize Ports by saying he benefitted from Denver's system yet since moving to Washington he has consistently put up numbers close to the top of the league while playing for a team that has had zero weapons outside of him.

Toiviessi never played due to injury. Hayward was one of the big hits of free agency three years ago and got a big contract. Great 3rd round pick.

He took a flyer on Clarett, sure but if anyone was going to you had to think it would've been Denver. It was the last pick of the third round.

You can go back further and look at picks like Al Wilson, John Mobley, Tom Nalen etc etc etc. Elvis Dumervil looks like a brilliant pick from last year as well.

I don't think he's a below average drafter at all. Especially when you consider that they are picking in the lower half of rounds almost every year.

[Flames in 07]

I think ONeil woke up the minute he touched down in Cincy. He was not very good in Denver and not worth the pick. The 'splaning I guess would be to see what they got for him, don't recall what they got, but I do remember he was a not a justified 1st rounder in Denver.

Nobody said Foster was a brutal pick. It's better to debate when you don't put words in the other person's mouth that happen to shape and support your own arguement. I said he is a decent starter, which is true. he is a decent starter.

There is no justification for picking Clarett, the fact they had the last 3rd round pick is irrelevant. He had one of the worst personalities in the history of football. Nothing justified about it.

Yep there have been great pics like Wilson, Davis in the 5th or 6 I recall and a few good FA's like Harold Hasselback. We can go through every single draft pick, but I'm not interested, I think he's below average when it comes to results ... no big deal. He's a great coach, great at managing a game, and overall one of the best ever ... just not good at drafting talent on Saturdays.

[Displaced Flames fan]

To quote you, "So of these the first round picks were ONeal, Middlebrooks, Foster and Lelie. All brutal first round picks"

I didn't put words in your mouth.

[Flames in 07]

ok your right, I thought I had edited that to say 3 were brutal and one OK ... must not have saved the edit. my bad.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

ok your right, I thought I had edited that to say 3 were brutal and one OK ... must not have saved the edit. my bad.

No problem, as long as you see why I went the way I did on Foster.

I will agree with you that some of Shanahan's first rounders have been brutal...and really from the very start, not just because they didn't turn out. Marcus Nash, Middlebrooks are the two best examples. I think Lelie could've been great if he'd stayed in Denver. He got bad advice and it may have killed his career.

What do you think of some of the more recent picks? Foxworth, Dumervil, Cutler etc?

I think he's had a couple of great drafts the last few years.

[Flames in 07]

Loved Cutler at Vandy. If you take Vanderbuilt and beat UT you are good. Cutler was a good pick and has been put into a good system, the downfield threat ... that and Walker gives the O something that has been missing since #7. Now they have to teach him the roll one way hit the streaking WR on the away sideline.

Dumervil looks good, Foxworth looks good and so does that TE. To me the best three teams in the AFC this year is NE, SD and Denver. Now I just need to figure out which game I can make it down there for this year.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Loved Cutler at Vandy. If you take Vanderbuilt and beat UT you are good. Cutler was a good pick and has been put into a good system, the downfield threat ... that and Walker gives the O something that has been missing since #7. Now they have to teach him the roll one way hit the streaking WR on the away sideline.

Dumervil looks good, Foxworth looks good and so does that TE. To me the best three teams in the AFC this year is NE, SD and Denver. Now I just need to figure out which game I can make it down there for this year.

My first choice would be Pittsburgh. That's just a personal preference.

I haven't been to a game at Invesco yet. Mile High was fun though.

[Flames in 07]

Invesco is great, built on top of the field, metal stands to stomp feet like the old MH and the announcer

Rich Gannons pass to Jerry Porter is ...

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Invesco is great, built on top of the field, metal stands to stomp feet like the old MH and the announcer

Rich Gannons pass to Jerry Porter is ...

One of the great traditions in the NFL IMO.

I love it. Can rarely hear that on TV (the crowd part) which makes it kind of special.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

One of the great traditions in the NFL IMO.

And they have a great video board
<-------

[Bobblehead]

Dominic Rhodes suspended for the first 4 games.

[flames_1987]

Glad to see the Colts let go of Rhodes, his personality fits well with the Raiders. He sure missed what could've been the high point of his carrer, coming off a near MVP performance in the superbowl and now to this.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Glad to see the Colts let go of Rhodes, his personality fits well with the Raiders. He sure missed what could've been the high point of his carrer, coming off a near MVP performance in the superbowl and now to this.

Things are not good if the highlights of your career are in Oakland.

Sounds like most of the legaue knew that this was in the works. Oakland probably did as well if you look at their RB depth.

[Flames in 07]

Dhani Jones is a Saint.

Signed the deal while hosting Total Access on the NFL channel

[rubecube]

Sam Brandon suspended 2 games for violating NFL's conduct policy.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2935411

[Lurch]

Indy signs Freeney to an absolute disaster of a contract, IMO. According to the article, the contract is worth about $12m per season with nearly $38m in the first 3 years, eclipsing the next highest paid defensive player by about $3m per season. He's a good to great pass rusher, but its a lot to pay for a 1 dimensional player with 6 sacks last season.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2935483

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by Lurch

Indy signs Freeney to an absolute disaster of a contract, IMO. According to the article, the contract is worth about $12m per season with nearly $38m in the first 3 years, eclipsing the next highest paid defensive player by about $3m per season. He's a good to great pass rusher, but its a lot to pay for a 1 dimensional player with 6 sacks last season.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2935483

Last season he was injured for nearly the entire season, every year before then he's been to the pro bowl and had double digit sack numbers. The guy has improved the rest of his game big time since he came into the league as well. Probablly a bit of an overpayment, but the Colts needed to lock someone up longterm on the defensive side of the ball.

[burn_baby_burn]

Jared Allen's suspension shortened from 4 games to 2.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/191487.html