American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[Monahammer]

As fun as it is to joke, Biden using the additional powers the SC gave to the president for Trump to kill Trump/ other unmentionables would probably cause an immediate civil war, so it's right out.

But, in a serious way, he should be abusing the ever living #### out of whatever executive powers he can right now. Cancel as much student debt as possible. Send as many bombs and missiles to Ukraine as can fit on planes. Deploy the marine corps to latvia. Maybe use presidential authority to throw some big wrenches into mega donors... I am positive the president can restrict airspace, so he could pause all SpaceX activity for example.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Why are family members as influential in US politics as they are? I don't know the name of a single Canadian Prime Minister's kid unless they were a TV host or became a politician themselves. I don't know the name of a PMs spouse or really care that much in what they have to say... Seriously did Paul Martin have kids... who ####ing cares? Because it isn't an episode of real housewives or some other reality TV show.

Do people actually want to be entertained by politics?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Couldn’t Biden, as POTUS, just have Trump and Vance offed if he perceives them as threats to America. Trump made this basically legal.

lol democrats are in here melting down about a pardon and you think they'd accept anything remotely close to this? I can hear the screeching wails of moral high ground occupiers now.

The rule is moral high ground for democrats, no expectations for republicans. I bet some of these morons are already crying about how this "opens a can of worms for Trump" or something similarly foolish as if any of this is what would be keeping the next administration in line.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

As fun as it is to joke, Biden using the additional powers the SC gave to the president for Trump to kill Trump/ other unmentionables would probably cause an immediate civil war, so it's right out.

But, in a serious way, he should be abusing the ever living #### out of whatever executive powers he can right now. Cancel as much student debt as possible. Send as many bombs and missiles to Ukraine as can fit on planes. Deploy the marine corps to latvia. Maybe use presidential authority to throw some big wrenches into mega donors... I am positive the president can restrict airspace, so he could pause all SpaceX activity for example.

Cancel student debt? stop donors? You know Biden and the Democrats are just the other corporate party right?

I mean Liz Cheney... Democrats are just republicans who care (on certain issues)

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Cancel student debt? stop donors? You know Biden and the Democrats are just the other corporate party right?

I mean Liz Cheney... Democrats are just republicans who care (on certain issues)

Why not? What does he have to lose?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Why are family members as influential in US politics as they are? I don't know the name of a single Canadian Prime Minister's kid unless they were a TV host or became a politician themselves. I don't know the name of a PMs spouse or really care that much in what they have to say... Seriously did Paul Martin have kids... who ####ing cares? Because it isn't an episode of real housewives or some other reality TV show.

Do people actually want to be entertained by politics?

Ben Mulroney, Sophie Trudeau... yeah that's all I got.

Holy #### I just looked up Jean Chretien and he's still alive! 90!

[Monahammer]

Alberta politics is absolutely LOUSY with relatives of former/ existing elected folk finding their way into the game.

Nixon and Dreeshen for example.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Biden knows what he has to do: For one night only, all crime is legal.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

The length of your post suggests otherwise. It was a non-issue back then. It was investigated. They concluded it was a non-issue. It's totally irrelevant to anything.

But just suppose it was concerning ethically or legally. What, then, would you do if you discovered that an ex-president illegally removed hundreds of classified documents on his way out of the White House, and then stored them in his bathroom at his private residence, without any security whatsoever? Is that concerning behavior...you know, ethically or legally?

The problem with bias is that it's one-sided. Trump had absolutely no right to have those documents in his house whatsoever. No excuses and he should have been prosecuted as much as possible.

Biden who also had classified documents in his home when he should not have is also not a good look. Not the same level of concern as Trump but let's not pretend that was not an actual issue.

Hillary Clinton and her email server. What do you think the official report would have said?? This women bypassed the US President, Secret Service, FBI, State Department, NSA and other organizations. The report concluded there was significant evidence of mishandling of classified information and emails. Is that not what Trump should have been potentially jailed for but with a higher degree of seriousness given his role as President?

When you knowingly bypass the Commander in Chief and have a higher functioning but less secure/traceable device than him it's shocking. In what world does an American President play second fiddle to someone else?

The Trump fans and lovers out there who can't possibly believe anything significant or serious was found in Mara Lago are the conservative version of liberal democrats who actually believe Clinton. Mrs. Clinton just baking up a storm all these years, ordering Lululemon pants from Canada for her yoga and maintaining her zen. Absolutely nothing to do with being in significant levels of power and influence for over 30+ years? Nothing? Everything is on the neat, proper and more?

Do people actually believe this nonsense in their minds? We all have friends or family who only call when they need something. The worlds most powerful people are not ever guilty of being corrupt? Any glance in history throughout thousands of years and billions of people will say otherwise with powerful and wealthy people.

Trump and Clinton, Bush, Trudeau, Biden, Mulroney, Harper, Regan and everybody else. "Nothing to see here folks, move along" we are all told. Ya right

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Biden knows what he has to do: For one night only, all crime is legal.

Its been a while since we've had a good Purge.

[photon]

Originally Posted by curves2000

The problem with bias is that it's one-sided. Trump had absolutely no right to have those documents in his house whatsoever. No excuses and he should have been prosecuted as much as possible.

Biden who also had classified documents in his home when he should not have is also not a good look. Not the same level of concern as Trump but let's not pretend that was not an actual issue.

Except Biden returned them when they were discovered. As did Pence. These guys handle enough documents it's no surprise that things get missed or left behind. That's different than actively taking them and bragging about it.

But that's why Pence and Biden weren't prosecuted and Trump was; because Trump refused to return them and apparently actively tried to hide them (at least that was part of the prosecution's case).

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Alberta politics is absolutely LOUSY with relatives of former/ existing elected folk finding their way into the game.

Nixon and Dreeshen for example.

Don't forget Notley.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by photon

Except Biden returned them when they were discovered. As did Pence. These guys handle enough documents it's no surprise that things get missed or left behind. That's different than actively taking them and bragging about it.

But that's why Pence and Biden weren't prosecuted and Trump was; because Trump refused to return them and apparently actively tried to hide them (at least that was part of the prosecution's case).

In all those cases, it was a product of their work spilling over into their private spaces. Obviously, politicians often work from home, and sometimes that involves classified documents. It's not an excuse for mishandling documents, but it's a reasonable explanation.

Trump did it AFTER he left the White House. He kept them long after he was out of office, so it wasn't for any official reason. Who knows why he did it, but it is an outlier compared to others. There's no reasonable explanation for why he had those documents.

That's the thing, there's a scale of mistakes and malfeasances. You have guys like Harper on one end, who was the least controversial leader I can remember in my lifetime (I know someone will snap at that comment and point out something terrible he did, but seriously, he was pretty scandal free). On the other end, you have guys like Trump, who literally rewrite the rules on what constitutes a scandal. In between you have a gradient of scandal from leaders like Biden, Mulroney, Trudeau to people like Reagan, Clinton (Bill, not Hillary), and Bush. I notice he conveniently left off Obama, largely because it didn't fit the narrative. Instead of having that nuanced discussion, and then pointing out that Trump is an extreme outlier in that group, you're lumping them together as "all bad", when there is clearly a scale of bad. But then, you also have to look at the beneficial things each leader has done and weigh out the balance.

It's almost as if politics deals in shade of gray, and is not conducive to black and white characterizations. It's lazy thinking to just say stuff like "all politicians are crooked and bad". No more so than any other person in any other profession ever. I'd like to see what happens when someone takes a fine tooth comb to look for transgressions in any private citizen's work or personal life. Chances are most of us wouldn't look very good.

[photon]

Shades of grey are hard and take too much time to drill down on.. it's just easier to call everything bad. In reality there are no absolutes and there's always circumstances where something previously unthinkable becomes reasonable.

I don't see Biden pardoning Hunter.. it's unfortunate but given the extreme rhetoric by Trump and his allies against prosecuting their political enemies (I mean Musk is literally talking about hanging Vindman) and that his prosecution has already exceeded norms for what he did it's also not unreasonable.

If you could trust the system to determine the truth then fine, the special counsel appointed for Hunter was a Republican even. But when the people who want to prosecute your family believes and repeats stuff that's imaginary political nonsense what other choices are there?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I would try to protect my son from Trump if I was Joe Biden. I doubt that if Kamala won he would have pardoned Hunter.

I also think the pardon being so vague and all-encompassing is because Biden probably has intelligence that his political opponents will try absolutely anything to go after Hunter after Joe leaves office.

Not saying I wouldn't do the same. Hell, If I had absolute power and immunity I'd probably do a lot more. Not sure this abuse of power should be celebrated as much as it seems to be.

[kermitology]

A ways down in this article is the details of a 2020 SEAL team 6 operation where Kash Patel appears to have made up that they had obtained permission from the Nigerian government for airspace access to run the operation.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...campaign=share

Around noon, Patel called the Pentagon with an update: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, he said, had gotten the approval. The mission was a go.

The SEALs were close to landing in Nigeria when Defense Secretary Mark Esper discovered that the State Department had not, in fact, secured the overflight clearance, as Patel had claimed. The aircraft were quickly diverted, flying in circles for the next hour as officials scrambled to alert the Nigerian government to their position. With the operation window narrowing, Esper and Pompeo called the Situation Room to put the decision to the president: Either they abort the mission and risk their hostage being killed, or they proceed into foreign airspace and risk their soldiers being shot down.

But then, suddenly, the deputy secretary of state was on the line, Esper later wrote in his memoir: They’d been cleared.

Anthony Tata, the Pentagon official and retired Army general to whom Patel had originally given the green light, confronted Patel in a rage. “You could’ve gotten these guys killed!” Tata shouted, according to two people familiar with the exchange. “What the #### were you thinking?”

Patel’s response was: “If nobody got hurt, who the #### cares?”

So.. here's where I think American's should be concerned. You have these people who have the attitude of: #### you, we can do what we want, we're AMERICA, and this kind of thing with Pete Hegseth and Marco Rubio in charge of DoD and the State Department aren't going to go through the actions of actually getting permission to run operations in foreign territories because they don't think they should have to.

I mean, I understand that the main point of these appointments is to weaponize and deconstruct these agencies, but this is likely going to result in a lot of American's getting killed through incompetence and flippant disregard for inter-country bureaucracy.

Like, Tulssi Gabbard and Pete Hegseth being at the top of defence and national intelligence.. I'm not calling for it, but doesn't that seem like it's going to result in the US being woefully unprepared for terrorist attacks? Like, in a major situation, are these people going to know what to do to protect the nation?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Not saying I wouldn't do the same. Hell, If I had absolute power and immunity I'd probably do a lot more. Not sure this abuse of power should be celebrated as much as it seems to be.

I guess the question is, is it an abuse of power? Or is the power itself the issue? What, precisely, did Biden do wrong?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I guess the question is, is it an abuse of power? Or is the power itself the issue? What, precisely, did Biden do wrong?

He didn't do anything wrong. He is given the absolute right to pardon anyone for any reason. Just like Trump did/does.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Why are family members as influential in US politics as they are? I don't know the name of a single Canadian Prime Minister's kid unless they were a TV host or became a politician themselves. I don't know the name of a PMs spouse or really care that much in what they have to say... Seriously did Paul Martin have kids... who ####ing cares? Because it isn't an episode of real housewives or some other reality TV show.

Do people actually want to be entertained by politics?

The only reason why I know Stephen Harper had a kid is because a teenaged girl who is friends with his son was plied with alcohol at their home and suffered from alcohol poisoning.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I guess the question is, is it an abuse of power? Or is the power itself the issue? What, precisely, did Biden do wrong?

He broke a promise. Had Trump lost I expect he wouldn’t have bothered, but he wanted to protect his son from Trump’s Justice Department, which will do all the things Trump claimed were done to him.

I feel like it was wrong to do it, but political norms have shifted so much it’s hard to say if it really was.