American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I know Locke is having some fun but it's not so easy to break up the US.

If you've studied the US Civil War there's always one looming question. When the South seceded to protect slavery, why didn't the North just let them? They instead fought a war to keep the South. Was it nationalistic? The US boasts the longest successful republic experiment and to break it up is unimaginable. Was it economic, the North couldn't afford to lose Southern crops? Can it afford to lose it now?

The successionist arguments were about new states, who gets the west essentially, not about the south, the North didnt need cotton and New Orleans, they wanted Kansas and Ohio (the frontier at the time) and the promise of Gold in the Rockies and the great plains

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Locke

I know. I dont want California either, but sacrifices must sometimes be made.

You absolutely want California included. They're consistently one of the top economies in the world and they're not even a country. Americans can talk about silly California all they want but they're vital to the American economy.

Oh it's ####ing gorgeous. I know this is a dumb little meme but you absolutely want California

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The successionist arguments were about new states, who gets the west essentially, not about the south, the North didnt need cotton and New Orleans, they wanted Kansas and Ohio (the frontier at the time) and the promise of Gold in the Rockies and the great plains

These days it's about remaining global hegemon. How do you split up the american military, for example?

No state would be able to secede without the rest initiating a war, IMO.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The successionist arguments were about new states, who gets the west essentially, not about the south, the North didnt need cotton and New Orleans, they wanted Kansas and Ohio (the frontier at the time) and the promise of Gold in the Rockies and the great plains

Yes, it was also about precedence. If the southern states could secede, why couldn't say New York in the future. The republic would have fallen apart.

[blender]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

Except we need to somehow include land locked Colorado in that mix.

Trade it for Alberta.

Deal is one-for-one

[devo22]

It'd be kind of funny to see some of the MAGA zombies slooowly realize in real time what it would mean for them if those states left. Kind of like a Brexit in reverse.

[Wormius]

It would be crazy that the US would ever give up access to the entire West Coast. “Alright, pack your parkas, sailors, we are moving the Navy to Alaska “.

[FlamesAddiction]

Kind of going OT here, but one of my favourite US Civil War facts is that the south actually provided 100,000 troops for the Union with every state but South Carolina have official unionist organizations set up. I remember watching a little mini-documentary on the news several years ago about a family in the south who were proud confederate waving southerners that bragged about their family fighting for the south only to research it and discover that they actually fought for the Union. About 55,000 people from British North America also crossed the border and fought for the Union.

Also let's take Puerto Rico while we're at it.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Wormius

It would be crazy that the US would ever give up access to the entire West Coast. “Alright, pack your parkas, sailors, we are moving the Navy to Alaska “.

I assume we get Hawaii in this deal so they can't move there?

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Mostly by idiots. Alberta is more liberal than most blue states, led alone red states. If Colorado is going into the enlightened map, then Alberta absolutely should be too.

By what measure? I don't see any blue or purple states voting for someone like Danielle Smith as governor.

Alberta looks like a lot of states politically. Metro areas are fairly liberal, rural areas very conservative. I don't know that many US metro areas that vote as conservatively as Calgary does though.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

By what measure? I don't see any blue or purple states voting for someone like Danielle Smith as governor.

Alberta looks like a lot of states politically. Metro areas are fairly liberal, rural areas very conservative. I don't know that many US metro areas that vote as conservatively as Calgary does though.

Politically, maybe. Danielle Smith’s intention is certainly to turn Alberta into an American-style red state, but there is a mountain of deeply ingrained liberal and socialist values, policies, and structures that need to be overcome (many of which there isn’t even an appetite to overcome from conservatives) before that happens.

If you look purely at political rhetoric then Alberta certainly looks like a fit with the red states, but because Canada as a whole is far more socialist than the US, Alberta (despite being quite a bit right in the Canadian landscape) is quite a bit left of most everywhere in the US.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I assume we get Hawaii in this deal so they can't move there?

What do they need Hawaii for without a coast line to defend? I think it should just go to Canada.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

What do they need Hawaii for without a coast line to defend? I think it should just go to Canada.

Give it back to the UK

[Dion]

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Give it back to the UK

Give it back to the indigenous people.

And sorry Colorado, you're on your own.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Give it back to the indigenous people.

And sorry Colorado, you're on your own.

https://www.sfgate.com/hawaii/articl...y-18183209.php

On the day celebrating the American colonies’ separation from Great Britain, Hawaii is relatively quiet in contrast to the continental United States, where fireworks light up neighborhoods across the country.

In Hawaii, July 4 is not a joyous occasion for some residents. This is because July 4 is also the day a group of businessmen self-declared the Islands to be the Republic of Hawaii in 1894, before imprisoning Queen Liliuokalani. Later, July 4, 1960, was chosen as the day the 50th star was added to the U.S. flag.

Basically the Dole fruit family stole Hawaii.

[SebC]

From the Israel thread...

https://www.axios.com/2024/11/29/tru...e-hostage-deal

I had to check if Axios is a real credible news source (it is), because there are some wild quotes in here.

Trump transition spokesperson Karoline Leavitt told Axios Trump was reelected because "the American people trust him to lead our country and bring stability and peace back to the Middle East."

And y'all thought it was because they were mad about inflation and don't understand he'll make it worse.

[Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.)] argued that diplomacy in the region would be easier due to Trump's win because people are afraid of him. "If you are a bad guy and you are not afraid of Trump then you are also a dumb guy. Bad and dumb guys don't last long."

So is Putin a dumb guy? Putin not a bad guy? Putin afraid of Trump? Putin not going to last long?

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Basically the Dole fruit family stole Hawaii.

You can do that? Okay! Who wants to steal Turks and Caicos with me?

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Dion

Facebook.com

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Wormius

It would be crazy that the US would ever give up access to the entire West Coast. “Alright, pack your parkas, sailors, we are moving the Navy to Alaska “.

They'd still have Hawaii...unless we could take that too.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Kind of going OT here, but one of my favourite US Civil War facts is that the south actually provided 100,000 troops for the Union with every state but South Carolina have official unionist organizations set up. I remember watching a little mini-documentary on the news several years ago about a family in the south who were proud confederate waving southerners that bragged about their family fighting for the south only to research it and discover that they actually fought for the Union. About 55,000 people from British North America also crossed the border and fought for the Union.

Also let's take Puerto Rico while we're at it.

Oh, and Hawaii!!!

Should have read the remainder of the thread before posting I see.