Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[curves2000]

Immigration and the volume of immigration is always a concern for a lot of countries, not just Canada. Some/most of the biggest critics of mass immigration through legal and illegal means are actual immigrants themselves who have played by the rules and have had years of hard labour and struggle. I have stated this point countless times and people here have brushed it off but it's actually true, hence the seismic shift in tone/policy/reaction from the federal Liberals on this issue. It's not like they are trying to right the ship politically with white, old stock Canadians so to speak.

This is a massive concern for a lot of people and a lot of immigrants in vote rich Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. There is what some may see as a perceived unfairness when compared to their immigration plight from years ago. There are also some stereotypes that are founded and some unfounded and some things that are culturally different, even amongst various ethnic groups. Some cultures are known to have 1 or 2 children at most while other's are known for many more.

Some of the benefits, training, income support, job search assistance and more that are available today is also a point of pain for previous immigrants and their children in some ways. I am not suggesting that the above is not a proper policy but it has perceived negative political consequences. "We got nothing when we came other than an apron and a whole lot of dishes to wash. We invested capital in Canada in short order, they send money back home. They are living in hotels while my pension after a lifetime of work doesn't even pay my utilities and property taxes"

I would expect continued changes to immigration policy in Canada, the US, the EU, Australia and other western style countries.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Look at this racist old white man daring to question uncontrolled immigration.

Where is he being racist?

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Mark Carney and Cliff are aligned on immigration?

Was the hand waving just the two of them high-fiving?

Where is he talking about expiring visas?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Where is he being racist?

It is supposed to be a joke because over the last two or three years when the opposition or anyone questioned Liberal immigration policies they were labeled as racists or xenophobic. But now that the left is rethinking their policies it is acceptable to do so and not be considered a racist.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

It is supposed to be a joke because over the last two or three years when the opposition or anyone questioned Liberal immigration policies they were labeled as racists or xenophobic. But now that the left is rethinking their policies it is acceptable to do so and not be considered a racist.

Or when people complain about immigration they say lots of racist things. I don’t think people tried to have the right size of immigration for Canada discussion

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

It is supposed to be a joke because over the last two or three years when the opposition or anyone questioned Liberal immigration policies they were labeled as racists or xenophobic. But now that the left is rethinking their policies it is acceptable to do so and not be considered a racist.

Further to GGG’s point, just look at the conversation here. Cliff? Not being racist/xenophobic. Azure and Doctorfever? Clearly racist/xenophobic. Same conversation, different approaches.

Notice how Carney talked about how immigration levels actually negatively affected the immigrants they brought in, and didn’t say things like “they’re taking our jobs” and “they don’t care about our culture” and “they’re marching in the street saying death to Canada”? See how that works?

[Locke]

Whats that? We dont have the infrastructure capabilities for a MASSIVE influx of people? Who could have predicted that a few years back?

Oh yeah! Everyone who isnt a complete idiot.

You cant be hauling in huge masses of people into a system that doesnt have the capacity or design to accommodate them.

You're not doing anyone any favours.

How has no one taped Trudeau's mouth shut yet?

[Ozy_Flame]

One could say similar things about Alberta under a far-right conservative administration, of course. Everyone come on in! Alberta is calling! Oh wait we don't have housing, healthcare, or infrastructure to sustain that. Whoopsie daisy!

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Locke

Whats that? We dont have the infrastructure capabilities for a MASSIVE influx of people? Who could have predicted that a few years back?

Oh yeah! Everyone who isnt a complete idiot.

You cant be hauling in huge masses of people into a system that doesnt have the capacity or design to accommodate them.

You're not doing anyone any favours.

How has no one taped Trudeau's mouth shut yet?

Guy with an avatar of a ghoul wearing blackface being racist. Wacky! Who'd have thought?

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by GGG

Has that changed? Is your headline different? That looks pretty factual right now. I don’t see anything objectionable in the article in context.

Read the post I did to Wormius. The whole narrative and messaging including the headline was edited after I initially posted. The initial article was very blatantly Liberal slanted, all mentions of how costly the demands of the NDP were have since been removed. Someone clearly got reined in (which while good it happened, continues to show how journalists personal bias sneak in to news articles way too often, and should have never been published as it was first written). It was changed a few times as the current headline was modified at least twice (it talked of Singh when Wormius saw it and I replied).

As is right now, it's factual and wouldn't have caught my eye.

[Fuzz]

Canada's Conservatives can't wait to surrender to Trump

The last time Trump threatened Canada's economy with tariffs, our political leaders rallied together to fight back. This time? Not so much.

For all the money and privilege he was handed by his parents, Donald Trump’s most valuable inheritance might be his instinctive ability to detect and expose weakness in others. He’s used it to devastating effect on any number of political foes in his own country, from former opponents like Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz to his own vice-president, JD Vance. Now, with his threat to impose a 25 per cent tariff on all Canadian exports on his first day back in office, he’s exposing the weakness of Conservatives north of the border as well.

Former CPC leader Erin O’Toole raised the ante in his own social media offering by suggesting that “first, we should offer to help finance the Keystone XL pipeline.” Ontario premier Doug Ford offered his own take on obsequiousness by placing an American flag in the background of his presser on the tariffs. As Globe and Mail columnist Andrew Coyne asked rhetorically, “Why not put a white flag up while you’re at it?”

Pierre Poilievre, meanwhile, decided this was yet another opportunity to advance his pre-existing policy priorities and blame the federal government for everything bad happening in the country. Our economy, he said, “is teetering on the brink of collapse,” and we need to come to terms with our “unprecedented weakness.” As far as negotiating strategies go, this is a new one.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/202...-tariffs-trump

Conservative ####s for Trump. Top notch stuff, you fools.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Mark Carney and Cliff are aligned on immigration?

Was the hand waving just the two of them high-fiving?

I’m aligned with Carney on a lot of stuff. I think he’d make a good PM. But not this election - the Liberal brand is too toxic, and the electorate is in an anti-institutional mood.

[GirlySports]

It's crazy to me that there was a limit on permanent immigration but not temporary immigration. So this caused many fake businesses hiring temp workers or fake universities admitting international students. This loophole was never addressed until now because why? The government didn't know? Afraid to be called racist?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

Or when people complain about immigration they say lots of racist things. I don’t think people tried to have the right size of immigration for Canada discussion

People have been discussing the right size of immigration for Canada for a while now. But a lot of people on the left still won’t touch the issue because it’s coded conservative. 180-degree-ism is a real thing in public discourse.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.nationalobserver.com/202...-tariffs-trump

Conservative ####s for Trump. Top notch stuff, you fools.

I think it's harder this time because Trump isn't in office yet? Are you going to stand up to a hypothetical policy now and ding the current administration?

[Yamer]

The original CBC articles had no bias unless you were specifically looking to manufacture it.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Further to GGG’s point, just look at the conversation here. Cliff? Not being racist/xenophobic. Azure and Doctorfever? Clearly racist/xenophobic. Same conversation, different approaches.

Notice how Carney talked about how immigration levels actually negatively affected the immigrants they brought in, and didn’t say things like “they’re taking our jobs” and “they don’t care about our culture” and “they’re marching in the street saying death to Canada”? See how that works?

Racism and xenophobia were the tools used to shutdown any conversation about a broken immigration system even when discussing issues which had merit such as the shortage of funds and resources to help or immigrants or the surging unemployment of young Canadians due to abuse of the TFW program. Instead of wanting to talk about issues it was just easier to throw around claims of being a horrible person.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think it's harder this time because Trump isn't in office yet? Are you going to stand up to a hypothetical policy now and ding the current administration?

I don't get this take. Obviously you are standing up against Trump. And yes, you stand up to it hard, now, rather than rolling over and showing your soft underbelly so Trump knows where to stab. You start giving him openings and agree he makes good points and you #### Canada even harder. How many times do we have to see people sucking up to Trump get stepped on and humiliated before people learn that's a dumb strategy?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's crazy to me that there was a limit on permanent immigration but not temporary immigration. So this caused many fake businesses hiring temp workers or fake universities admitting international students. This loophole was never addressed until now because why? The government didn't know? Afraid to be called racist?

Why? A combination of naivete and negligence. Immigration Minister Marc Miller called out the ‘bad actors’ who exploited the system. But bad actors exploit every system. Lots of people are selfish or unscrupulous, and their behaviour needs to be taken into account when you craft policy.

Of course employers were going to exploit temporary foreign workers and lobby to remove the safeguards intended to reduce intake when unemployment rose.

Of course some foreign students were going to use student visas as a back-door immigration strategy.

Of course universities were going to maximize revenue by accepting as many foreign students as possible, without any thought to where they would live.

Of course removing restrictions on airport arrivals would massively increase the number of people making asylum claims after arriving on a one-way flight.

And of course all of the above would put strains in infrastructure and services that were already in crisis, and voters would blame the Liberals even though most infrastructure and services are the responsibility of the provinces or municipalities.

But the Liberals dismissed these concerns because their brand in the 21st century can’t accommodate the kind of hard-headed skepticism that you need to craft effective policy (rather than policy that has sunny vibes). Or at least it couldn’t until it looked like they’d get steamrolled in the next election.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Further to GGG’s point, just look at the conversation here. Cliff? Not being racist/xenophobic. Azure and Doctorfever? Clearly racist/xenophobic. Same conversation, different approaches.

Notice how Carney talked about how immigration levels actually negatively affected the immigrants they brought in, and didn’t say things like “they’re taking our jobs” and “they don’t care about our culture” and “they’re marching in the street saying death to Canada”? See how that works?

Show me on the doll where my comments hurt you.

This is exactly what people are talking about, trying hard to manipulate comments so you can say the ‘other side’ is racist.

People aren’t dumb Pepsi. Be better.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Racism and xenophobia were the tools used to shutdown any conversation about a broken immigration system even when discussing issues which had merit such as the shortage of funds and resources to help or immigrants or the surging unemployment of young Canadians due to abuse of the TFW program. Instead of wanting to talk about issues it was just easier to throw around claims of being a horrible person.

I was curious about this take, so took a quick look through, and found this discussion that started with, well, Yoho:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=2710

But it was a reasonable discussion about limits and what we can handle that wasn't being shut down by claims of racism and xenophobia until, well, until the racist showed up. Yikes.