The topic is so loaded with people’s personal baggage that it’s difficult to have a straight coversation. Nobody seems to know what Canada is or isn’t able to do, how many expiring visas is a typical number, how many temporary residents there are or were or how easy or difficult it is to live without status.
Instead it’s talk of criminals hiding out in Canada, roaming the streets chanting “death to Canada” instead of going back to India (because obviously they’re all from there and that place sucks the worst), and the problem they cause by… not being able to hold a legal job, access free healthcare or government services, or otherwise be any kind of burden on society at all.
Sure makes them sound like a deeply nefarious bunch. And there will be hundreds of thousands more them! Because… well, we don’t know exactly, but that sounds like a lot and that’s scary.
Yeah, so hard that people like you basically don’t even try. Because bringing up immigration is coded as conservative. And if your whole online persona is built around being anti-conservative, you’ll just avoid the subject altogether and make dark implications about anyone who does.
But lots of non-conservative adults in the room* are talking about the problems generated by the unprecedented ramping up of immigration in the face of experts warning of its negative consequences. I mean, even the government that carried out the policies has acknowledged that it blew up in their faces.
If you don’t want the CPC to get into power, you should be especially angry about how badly the Liberals have handled the immigration brief, as it’s looking like it will hand Poilievre a majority. Though I suppose you could just chalk that up to the idiocy of the average Canadian, as a lot of posters around here do.
* I get most of my information on the subject from the Globe and Mail - that notorious den of populist far-right misinformation. Where do you get your news on the subject from, Pepsi?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 11-27-2024 at 03:54 PM.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
We didn’t have a huge population of undocumented workers because historically we had only a small number of visa holders to begin with. There’s a huge difference between tracking and managing 300-400k visa holders and 4 million visa holders. Most will leave. Some will not.
Where did you get the idea that we only had 300-400K temporary visa holders at any given time in recent history? I think you might be confusing annual numbers (i.e. new visa holders/temporary residents in a given year) with the total. Most people on temporary work or study permits stay for multiple years, and about 40% of TFW and IMP workers stay 5+ years. Yes, there are more now than in the past, but not 10x more like you seem to be suggesting.
Where did you get the idea that we only had 300-400K temporary visa holders at any given time in recent history? I think you might be confusing annual numbers (i.e. new visa holders/temporary residents in a given year) with the total. Most people on temporary work or study permits stay for multiple years, and about 40% of TFW and IMP workers stay 5+ years. Yes, there are more now than in the past, but not 10x more like you seem to be suggesting.
Fair enough.
When you said there were hardly any undocumented migrants in Canada, did you have 300k-600k in mind? Or did you find that figure surprising?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Yeah, so hard that people like you basically don’t even try. Because bringing up immigration is coded as conservative. And if your whole online persona is built around being anti-conservative, you’ll just avoid the subject altogether and make dark implications about anyone who does.
But lots of non-conservative adults in the room* are talking about the problems generated by the unprecedented ramping up of immigration in the face of experts warning of its negative consequences. I mean, even the government that carried out the policies has acknowledged that it blew up in their faces.
If you don’t want the CPC to get into power, you should be especially angry about how badly the Liberals have handled the immigration brief, as it’s looking like it will hand Poilievre a majority. Though I suppose you could just chalk that up to the idiocy of the average Canadian, as a lot of posts around here do.
* I get most of my information on the subject from the Globe and Mail - that notorious den of populist far-right misinformation. Where do you get your news on the subject from, Pepsi?
This is a lot of hand waving to distract from the fact that your opinion was almost entirely formed and confidently declared despite not knowing anything about how Canada tracks exits, the current process surrounding temporary residents, how many visas expire in the average year, and how many temporary residents exist at any one time.
Care to re-evaluate your position on the knowledge you’ve been gifted or cite any sources for the information you, apparently, just made up to support your position?
Or you can keep ranting about how this is some anti-conservative thing, somethhing nobody has mentioned but you, in an effort to coddle some delicate intellectual ego that would seemingly be in danger by just admitting you didn’t know what you were talking about it at the outset.
When you said there were hardly any undocumented migrants in Canada, did you have 300k-600k in mind? Or did you find that figure surprising?
No, that didn't seem particularly high to me. The middle of that is just over 1% of the population and about 5% of the immigrant population at the last census (likely even lower now). In the US by comparison, it's estimated that 1 in 4 foreign-born people is an undocumented immigrant.
And I do think people are overestimating how easy it is to live in Canada as an illegal immigrant. It's not like the US where there's essentially a parallel infrastructure and illegal immigration is effectively encouraged because of its benefits to businesses. The US could drastically reduce the level of undocumented workers through very simple measures (like requiring e-verify for all new employees to ensure that they're legally able to work), but they never do because they benefit so much from the cheap labor.
That doesn't exist in Canada to the same degree. Sure, people can get cash jobs and whatnot, but industries like agriculture can already get TFWs and pay them relative peanuts while being totally legitimate, so there's just less incentive. And we don't have laws protecting undocumented workers like some US states do.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to opendoor For This Useful Post:
If people believe that the CBC is an arm of government propaganda, then I'm not sure why they would be dead set on defunding or destroying it. All they need to do is win the election, and it becomes their tool.
Why would you want to pay for someone to strictly shell out government propaganda?
Can we go a week without a Liberal falsely claiming indigenous ancestry?
Quote:
In an interview, Callum Robinson, the vice-president of the Waceya Métis Society in Langley, B.C., said he first raised questions about Fleischer’s claims of Indigenous and Métis identity one week ago to both the candidate and the Liberal Party of Canada. The Waceya Métis Society is a chartered community represented by the Métis Nation British Columbia (MNBC).
He says the questions were sparked by the fact Fleischer had contacted the society asking for an endorsement as a Métis candidate when she was officially nominated to be the Liberal representative in the Cloverdale—Langley City byelection on Nov. 10.
He says he met with Fleischer on Nov. 23 to discuss her Métis heritage and left the meeting disappointed because she was unable to produce any real evidence of Métis lineage.
“She could not provide me with any preliminary evidence” other than stating that her great-grandmother was from North Dakota, Robinson said. “She says that she’s an expert in Indigenous protocol, so she should kind of know these things.”
“I think she should step down,” he added. “What is the insistence to keep this person in the riding? Like, this is just bad PR, (the party) knew about this last week when I brought my concerns forward.”
Quote:
The Metis Nation of British Columbia said in a statement that it encourages those who self-identify as Métis to apply for citizenship, which requires they undergo a “rigorous process” where they must show “strong proof of ancestry and connection to the Métis Nation.”
“Métis Nation British Columbia (MNBC) strongly condemns anyone who makes false claims of Indigenous identity,” its CEO, Colette Trudeau, said in a statement.
“We know firsthand the harm and damage these claims cause to Indigenous communities across the country.”
Canada didn't live up to its values on immigration over the last few years as it allowed more people into the country than it could absorb, said former Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney.
Carney, who is a special adviser to the Liberal party, made the comments at an event on Wednesday in Ottawa held by Cardus, a Christian think tank.
"We had much higher levels of foreign workers, students and new Canadians coming in than we could absorb, that we have housing for, that we have health care for, that we have social services for, that we have opportunities for. And so we're letting down the people that we let in, quite frankly."
Good grief can it be any more blatant with the headlines and sub-headlines used and inserting their own take? The CBC is actively pushing the Liberal narrative of guilt tripping the NDP for not getting this rammed through without 'costly changes' (and of course omitting they would be pushing aside the current Liberal corruption impasse that has put Parliament at a standstill for months to get it in).
As if the GST break already planned isn't a costly and shortsighted election buyout?
And before we get the usual: "But but Firebot, here you go off doing your deranged CBC conspiracies again, here's article xxx proving you wrong and being critical of Liberals"...
Here's the thumbnail on their video talking in depth about the GST break.
I mean...
Here is what I get for the head line and sub headline
Quote:
Liberals table a GST holiday bill with no mention of $250 rebate cheques
NDP has been pushing for rebate to be extended to seniors
Has that changed? Is your headline different? That looks pretty factual right now. I don’t see anything objectionable in the article in context.
