11-26-2024, 07:09 PM
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#101
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Richmond upon Thames, London
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
And there it is. Some stupid anti American comment.
Quite the elevated discussion going on.
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You came to this thread for elevated discussion?
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11-26-2024, 08:16 PM
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#102
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Franchise Player
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I only watched Biz talking about it, so I reserve the right to change my opinion when more video/audio is shown.
I think Biz behaved wrong here. I think he was the dynamite in this situation. The caveat being that Biz seeing and hearing what those guys were saying, maybe he could tell that those guys had already decided to throw down, period, before approaching them. If that's the case, then I nullify my opinion here.
He went there, grabbed one of those guys by the arm, and threatened them by saying that if they don't stop, 'we are going outside'. That's the wrong energy you bring if your goal is to de-escalate. He should have went over there trying to defuse the situation somehow, or even just kept quiet, and seen if the manager was able to get things under control. He did manage to kick out one guy already. That's what I got anyway from his explanation - Biz was the first guy in this whole situation to initiate contact. As I said, he could very well had an EXCELLENT read on the situation and stepped-in right before things got physical, and if that's the case, then what he did was 100% the right thing at the moment and good on him. I just think that perhaps it was a bit of 'lighting the match'.
As for the MMA talk - it stops and ends with one versus one. The LAST thing you want to do is take guys down and try to ground and pound them, or put them in an arm-bar or guillotine, or rear-naked choke... Are the 5 other guys going to patiently wait while you do this?
Being in an out-numbered fight isn't a hollywood movie, no matter what background you have. I am going to seriously burst some people's bubble here, but have you noticed in these uneven fights how the bad guys seem to be very good at looking busy about joining the fight? It is 99% one versus one all the time, with a bunch of guys finding weird reasons to hesitate before coming at the hero. That's not real life.
Give me 5 random dudes, and I know we can beat down Jon Jones or McGregor or whomever else you want. Yep, one or two of us may end up getting knocked-out cold, but that's what a swarm does. The swarm surrounds the guy, rushes him with the intent to get him on the ground. Good luck in your training as you have to count 12 legs trying to kick and stomp you, as well as 12 fists coming down on you. Let's just ignore the inescapable realization that these guys may even escalate beyond this - maybe someone pulls out a gun, or a knife, or just picks up a brick. Your black belt in BJJ is not going to make your skin any more impenetrable than any other dude.
If you ever find yourself in a situation where you are suddenly in a situation where it is likely you are having to fight multiple people, remember these steps:
1) De-escalate. 99.9% of the time, there isn't a real reason for you to risk your life here. If they enter your house and your family is inside - ok, pick something up and get ready I guess. On some random street where looks are exchanged or they pick a fight? Let it go. You are not superman. Just avoid escalating it into a fight.
2) If it does escalate into a fight even if you do your best to defuse it, your next option is to escape, period. There is no shame in not standing up to a bunch of dudes at once. Once again, you are not superman, this isn't hollywood where they will come at you one at a time, and there is absolutely no shame in running away from a fight you didn't start or have any vested interest in having - especially one in which you are out-numbered. Just get the F out as soon as you can.
3) If you can't de-escalate and can't escape, then block, counter, move and look for an escape. Keep moving so that they have less ability to work together. Protect yourself. Don't look away as they hit - keep your guard up, move your head away without taking your eyes off of them, and punch/kick back as often as possible, while you continue looking for an escape. You are not going to defeat a group of guys. You need to escape.
4) If they do manage to take you down, do your best to get back up as fast as possible. Look out for your head as you do - you are exposing your head, especially to big damaging kicks. Roll away and get up running if possible.
5) If you can't get up, pretend these guys are a grizzly bear - curl up and protect your head and organs. Keep looking for an escape and take it if possible.
6) If a guy happens to fall on top of you, that's when your MMA training will help somewhat. Hug him tightly and keep him pressed against you. Wrap your arms around him. Now scream like a banshee for help. Heck, start yelling "Fire" - studies have shown that people are more likely to respond to someone yelling fire than they are 'help' as awful as that sounds to hear. You want to get as many people out there as possible to try and break up the fight, or at least make it uncomfortable for your assailants to continue.. or even at least someone calls the cops.
This isn't the movies. I am glad that Biz was not seriously hurt - he is lucky that one of those kicks didn't knock him out, and the subsequent ones did more damage. He is extremely lucky here. I am not saying that you shouldn't help - I think his heart was absolutely in the right place, and I don't want to knock him down a peg. I think more people should try and help in these situations. I just think that the first thing that should be done would be to de-escalate, rather than throw fire on the situation first, unless you know that violence is erupting already - he may have seen this.
I am not some tough guy or trying to sound like one. I just think that people are underestimating the potential damage that 6 regular men could do against a seasoned fighter with their bare hands at the same time, ignoring the potential that any one (or more) of these 6 men could have picked up a weapon of some sort (knife, gun, stick, brick). You want to go pick fights at a bar, you are a loser. You are NOT a loser for trying to de-escalate, and for doing your best to run away from a situation you should have no business being in (not talking about Biz here - just some general life advice).
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11-26-2024, 08:18 PM
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#103
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Franchise Player
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tldr
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11-26-2024, 08:22 PM
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#104
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cam_wmh
tldr
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Cool. Yet you take the time to post a reply.
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11-27-2024, 02:19 AM
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#105
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: lower mainland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe
I only watched Biz talking about it, so I reserve the right to change my opinion when more video/audio is shown.
I think Biz behaved wronghere. I think he was the dynamite in this situation. The caveat being that Biz seeing and hearing what those guys were saying, maybe he could tell that those guys had already decided to throw down, period, before approaching them. If that's the case, then I nullify my opinion here.
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I strongly disagree that Biz behaved wrong here. Maybe not optimally, but certainly not wrong. Besides maybe saying that the police are already on the way, it’s a long shot that Biz could have de-escalated things no matter how he approached it.
I really don’t think any deeper read than what we know was needed to warrant action. A drunk in someone’s face with their hand on a person’s shoulder is a high threat of a violence. ANY hostile person closer than arms reach is already threatening imminent violence, let alone if they raise their hands or touch you.
Biz grabbing the guy’s arm may have lit the fuse in this situation, and certainly it is always better to ask someone to back off first. However, given the immediate threat to the manager, grabbing the guy’s arm wasn’t unwarranted in my opinion. The drunk could’ve snapped at any moment on the manager from not liking something he heard just as easily from having his arm touched.
If things could have been calmly de-escalated by Biz, the staff with experience in these situations would have been able to do so sooner during the ruckus that built for a while. Biz calmly talking would have been seen as the same obstacle, getting in the way of them getting more booze. They would have almost certainly either gotten in Biz’s face or continued with the manager, forcing Biz to step in.
I had some experience with this when I was in younger when me and a buddy helped out the bouncers we knew at our favourite bar a bunch of times from being badly outnumbered. The bouncer at the front door was big and was great at talking people down and us as backup helped. However, in a lot of cases drunken idiots who are determined to have their way just can’t and won’t be de-escalated.
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The toilet seat may go up and down, but the #### never gets flushed. - Enoch Root
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11-27-2024, 04:54 AM
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#106
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
Relax guys, my point was he isnt much of a celeb in the US. The guys he was brawling with had no idea what they were getting into. We are in a hockey bubble.
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Which, I mean lets be honest, doesnt that make it even funnier? I think its hilarious.
"We're gonne be the BIG DOGS in this moderately priced family restaurant!!! Wooo!!!"
Yeah...about that.
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11-27-2024, 04:56 AM
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#107
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampede2TheCup
I had some experience with this when I was in younger when me and a buddy helped out the bouncers we knew at our favourite bar a bunch of times from being badly outnumbered. The bouncer at the front door was big and was great at talking people down and us as backup helped. However, in a lot of cases drunken idiots who are determined to have their way just can’t and won’t be de-escalated.
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Ditto. I am not a fighter for the most part, but I'm also not letting a bunch of idiots ruin my neighbourhood bar, nor am I going to stand idly by as the bartender or bouncer stands alone against numerous drunken yahoos.
I will never initiate a fight (except against Aeneas, but those were extenuating circumstances!) but I wont dodge one either.
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The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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11-27-2024, 04:58 AM
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#108
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Lifetime Suspension
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Maybe should change the thread title after seeing the mug shots.
Biz laughs uncontrollably as 6 men try assault him. Ends up in ER from laughing so hard.
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11-27-2024, 07:24 AM
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#109
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electric boogaloo
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For a bunch of nerds we sure have a lot of fightin' experts here. If you post on a message board you should be banned for ever saying "throwing down".
Proud member of the never came close to fighting in my life club. Wrestling team doesn't count.
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11-27-2024, 07:25 AM
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#110
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Franchise Player
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Is there more information that is out there? If not, how are we writing novella length dissertations based on one guy’s recounting of what happened?
I chuckle every time someone talks about this place as a bar. This is a restaurant with an old clientele. Hilarious that this would happen at a place like this. The parking lot they were scrapping in is part of a strip mall.
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11-27-2024, 07:43 AM
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#111
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: DeWinton
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Been to Houston's many times in Scottsdale. Nice place, couldn't imagine something like this going down in a joint like that.
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11-27-2024, 07:49 AM
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#112
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Participant 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze2
For a bunch of nerds we sure have a lot of fightin' experts here. If you post on a message board you should be banned for ever saying "throwing down".
Proud member of the never came close to fighting in my life club. Wrestling team doesn't count.
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Does getting at least one junior karate belt count?
What about watching a lot of MMA?
Taking a boxing fitness class?
Reading Sun Tzu’s the Art of War?
Come on man, you have to give the people something to hold on to. We can’t let all these fantasies of being the next Andrew Tate or Mr.Miyagi die on the vine.
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11-27-2024, 07:53 AM
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#113
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
Does getting at least one junior karate belt count?
What about watching a lot of MMA?
Taking a boxing fitness class?
Reading Sun Tzu’s the Art of War?
Come on man, you have to give the people something to hold on to. We can’t let all these fantasies of being the next Andrew Tate or Mr.Miyagi die on the vine.
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I regularly wear TAP OUT shirts.
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Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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11-27-2024, 08:02 AM
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#114
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Singapore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mile
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I guess Sean Daley thought he was John Daly...
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Shot down in Flames!
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11-27-2024, 08:07 AM
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#115
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: still in edmonton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze2
For a bunch of nerds we sure have a lot of fightin' experts here. If you post on a message board you should be banned for ever saying "throwing down".
Proud member of the never came close to fighting in my life club. Wrestling team doesn't count.
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The one time my friends and I got in a fight, I just stood there and was talking with the other fourth guy how stupid this was.
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11-27-2024, 08:08 AM
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#116
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CedarMeter
Been to Houston's many times in Scottsdale. Nice place, couldn't imagine something like this going down in a joint like that.
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Golfists, Arizona heat and the End Times are upon us.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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11-27-2024, 08:09 AM
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#117
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby
The one time my friends and I got in a fight, I just stood there and was talking with the other fourth guy how stupid this was.
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"Maybe if you’ve been in a real fight, you might not be so keen for another."
I've been in some fights, truthfully didn't enjoy.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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11-27-2024, 08:11 AM
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#118
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
How much can you know about yourself if you've never been in a fight?
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- Tyler Durden
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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11-27-2024, 08:21 AM
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#119
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Van City - Main St.
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Good on Biz for stepping in and helping the restaurant staff out.
We need more of that in these times where no one seems to help strangers with anything and just pull out there phones.
But I understand the hesitation to put yourself in harms way for most people too I guess.
However I also agree with the poster who said he lit the match by grabbing the guys arm and threatening to take him outside. He probably could have gone about it differently to deescalate.
Impossible to say for sure without being there though.
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11-27-2024, 08:24 AM
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#120
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Participant 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
- Tyler Durden
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Oh right, forgot to mention guys who have seen Fight Club and Bloodsport
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