GM Meetings: Daly warns GMs about tampering. Considering shorter max term contracts

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I get the sentiment behind “just don’t sign max deals” but I think it’s a mistake to just write it off as something to protect GMs from stupidity.

There are only 4 GMs that have been around for longer than 8 years, and only a third of GMs were hired before 2020. In reality, it’s a competitive, shorter term position when players, more often than not, outlast the people who drafted or signed them.

It’s fine and dandy for a GM to come out and say “I’m not signing any UFA longer than 4 years,” but that puts them at a competitive disadvantage. All it takes is one GM willing to go longer, for any number of reasons, and they stand to lose a good player.

Even good, well respected GMs are signing guys to 5-8 year contracts that take them well into their 30s. This isn’t something exclusive to “stupid” GMs.

So they get fired all the time and keep giving out stupid contracts. Wonder if those could be related.

You don’t come out and announce that you aren’t going to do something, just do it. If the player takes a huge discount on AAV then a max contract can make sense.

“I’m not signing unless I get a huge deal for max term!!!” Okay, bye Marchessault.

[butterfly]

32 people from CP could do at least an equal, if not better, collective job at GM than the collection of individuals that are in the NHL now.

They’re so out of control that they need CBA regulations on contract terms to keep their stupidity in check?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by butterfly

32 people from CP could do at least an equal, if not better, collective job at GM than the collection of individuals that are in the NHL now.

They’re so out of control that they need CBA regulations on contract terms to keep their stupidity in check?

Your work environment just lets you go wild ? No rules and checks and balances ? Just do whatever you like ?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Do they? 27 contracts in MLB history have been 10 seaons or longer, with 20 of those being inked in the last 10 years since 2014.

That’s not that many. 2 a year? Look at a typical MLB roster and you few very long contracts. Blue Jays have I think 2 that are over 5 years.

You can’t really use guys like Ohtani and Soto as examples, those are outliers.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That’s not that many. 2 a year? Look at a typical MLB roster and you few very long contracts. Blue Jays have I think 2 that are over 5 years.

You can’t really use guys like Ohtani and Soto as examples, those are outliers.

Most of those guys I’d bet are people like Ozzie Albies, Julio Rodriguez and Wander Franco who were very early 20s when they signed. Baseball GMs got smart because the market for dumb ones evaporated. In hockey there’s still time to take advantage of the dumb ones.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Your work environment just lets you go wild ? No rules and checks and balances ? Just do whatever you like ?

No, we make sure the board can’t fire the CEO because they were so good earlier in their career. The CEO wouldn’t work for less than a 10-year deal and we got so scared that another company would hire them that we had to overpay for their late 70s and early 80s.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by butterfly

So they get fired all the time and keep giving out stupid contracts. Wonder if those could be related.

You don’t come out and announce that you aren’t going to do something, just do it. If the player takes a huge discount on AAV then a max contract can make sense.

Probably not, as even the ones who last a long time have signed “stupid” contracts, and not every GM that leaves gets fired. But I get the desire to over-simplify it.

It doesn’t matter if a GM announces it or not, if someone is offering 4, every GM knows it, and can offer more.

It’s dog eat dog. It’s a competition. GMs aren’t worried about 8 years down the line, a lot changes in that time. Hell, do a good enough job then you might catapult yourself into a better job and not have to worry about the mess you started building 7-8 years prior.

Nor are they worried about making sure every other team is competitive, too. They want to win and be better than the next guy.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

Should go to non-guaranteed contracts like the NFL has. You suck, you don't get paid. Seems fair to me.

You suck as a GM, those are the consequences. Contracts are contacts. Unless the players also have the ability to walk away from a contract when they're underpaid it's nonsense in my opinion.

[Erick Estrada]

On one hand the 8 year deals benefit small market teams like the Flames when it comes to keeping home grown talent but on the other hand even the best GM's can't project the future and there's an inherent risk with every single long term contract handed out so there's some luck involved. IMO the recent trend of handing 8 year deals to RFA's is the right way to go about it as a lot of that term covers prime or very good years. It's the late 20's UFA long term contracts that are the ones that are handcuffing teams but that can be avoided by drafting and developing well.

IMO by far the biggest issue right now with the NHL is the whole LTIR thing and how teams are using injuries to circumvent the salary cap. It's not just a Lightning or Knights thing as a few Canadian teams have been doing this for years. The Oilers for example haven't even been hiding the fact that they have been doing this going back to Mike Smith and now Kane. Leafs have actually been a pioneer at circumventing the cap for a while. The league needs to get the cheating out of the game.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

If a 21 does the 3/5 he is gone at 29, kind of when you want to let them go.

Originally Posted by Jason14h

NFL?

Stars very rarely move unless its divas requesting a trade. NBA is similar

NHL has the most movement by a mile on trade deadline day

Ya if you want movement get rid of the cap. You will see far more trades then.

[GFG#1]

8-year deals can be good for your young prospects, but risky as well if you are not certain they can perform.

8-year deals are terrible for guys over 25 you could push it to 27 for a few players, but the majority of 8-year contracts signed to anyone over 25 are typically bad contracts for the last 2-4 years.

You can start to see the shift in mentality, but it is taking a long time to get there. The guys in there 30s now played in a time that you got paid for what you did in the past and still expect to get paid like that. Since they didn't get to cash in at 22 or 23.

The biggest problem with the 8-year deals, especially with the ones that end in the mid to late 30's is they are retirement contracts, and it no longer matters how they perform. Pro athletes are wired differently, and I am sure almost all of them sign the deals and do try to compete as hard as they can, just gets tougher as they get older and slower, and the game gets younger and faster.

I know if my boss came to me and said this is how much you are going to make for the next 8 years, I can't fire you and you won't get a raise before you retire. I would put in enough effort to get the job done, but I wouldn't be putting in extra hours or effort.

As for GM's helping themselves, they get paid for their team to compete/win now for the most part. None of them care about anchor contracts ending in 4-8 years as there is a good chance they are gone and will never need to worry about it. If they are not gone, then it is likely they have been super close if not already won a cup. I doubt Tre even gives a second thought to the Huberdeau contract anymore.

In a perfect world as a fan all deals are 1-3 years so players have to compete every year, or 8-year deals, but if you sign it as a point per game player, and are no longer a point per game player, then the contract can be voided at seasons end. Unfortunately the NHLPA will not go for that anytime soon.

[CroFlames]

So basically the premise is that the GMs in this league can't help themselves signing stupid deals, so the head office has to protect them from themselves.

Got it.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

We won't be able to compete until at least 2031-32 due to Huberdeau's terrible deal. Doesn't seem fair to fans like ours to have our team suck for so long carrying the worst contract in the NHL. Let's shorten the max term deals to three or four years.

Minnesota has $14 million in dead cap this year and they seem to be icing a competitive team.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

So basically the premise is that the GMs in this league can't help themselves signing stupid deals, so the head office has to protect them from themselves.

Got it.

Well, they could help themselves, and they do try to make deals that aren’t stupid, but in reality these deals offer a competitive advantage so they don’t really have a choice if they actually want to compete for good players.

If those deals are off the table, then teams don’t have to worry about signing them to remain competitive, as nobody else is going to offer them either.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Well, they could help themselves, and they do try to make deals that aren’t stupid, but in reality these deals offer a competitive advantage so they don’t really have a choice if they actually want to compete for good players.

If those deals are off the table, then teams don’t have to worry about signing them to remain competitive, as nobody else is going to offer them either.

Or we can let market forces handle those situations. The CBA should basically boil down to you can spend min of X on your roster and a max of Y.

Case in point: Toronto won no Cups from 1967-2004 despite being a big market team and not being restrained by salary caps and restricted contract lengths.

Let the GMs eat each other. It's fun.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

So basically the premise is that the GMs in this league can't help themselves signing stupid deals, so the head office has to protect them from themselves.

Got it.

The problem is that there's 32 GM's and it only takes very small handful to ruin it for everyone. Given that a lot of GM's in this league aren't very good at their job it's one of those things where the league needs needs to protect itself from poorly run or desperate organizations.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Ya if you want movement get rid of the cap. You will see far more trades then.

The cap stays. Once the NBA put in more stringent tax aprons the NBA playing field has leveled with the shorter contracts.

Look at the standings a lot of small market teams in the top 8 in each conference.

OKC and Cleavland are not really hot destinations.

People are too spooked since we lost players in 2022, but we have been able to keep them as well.

It was mismanagement as much as it was players wanting to go to the US. Build a contender and they will stay.

[CliffFletcher]

Is a GM who cares more about the next 5 years than about years 6-8 necessarily bad at their job?

The NHL is cyclical. Teams rarely win the big prize without pushing all their chips in at some point. Signing a player to a contract that you know will be ugly in 6 years might be the smart thing to do if it means icing the best roster possible at the top of the cycle.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

We won't be able to compete until at least 2031-32 due to Huberdeau's terrible deal. Doesn't seem fair to fans like ours to have our team suck for so long carrying the worst contract in the NHL. Let's shorten the max term deals to three or four years.

One bad contract has never stopped a team from competing.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The cap stays. Once the NBA put in more stringent tax aprons the NBA playing field has leveled with the shorter contracts.

Look at the standings a lot of small market teams in the top 8 in each conference.

OKC and Cleavland are not really hot destinations.

People are too spooked since we lost players in 2022, but we have been able to keep them as well.

It was mismanagement as much as it was players wanting to go to the US. Build a contender and they will stay.

Yeah, 22 was a perfect storm coming out of border restrictions etc impacting folks perspectives.