I just posted an article that says Israelis attacked Palestinians.
What? There are various videos of the attackers asking random people on the street were they are from. They were targeting anyone they presumed to be Israeli.
There are already reports from Dutch newspaper De Telegraph that this was a planned attacked. They are reporting there were telegram groups were the attackers planned this and they titled the attack a “Jew Hunt”. They were targeting any Israeli on the street, stop gaslighting me to believe these criminals were merely targeting the Israelis that were at the game acting like dbags.
Last edited by Beninho; 11-08-2024 at 03:27 PM.
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C’mon. If a bunch of Israelis waited outside a soccer stadium to hunt down arabs because a portion were burning Israeli flags and calling for the destruction of Israel you would rightfully say that’s wrong, I highly doubt you would be here defending Israelis in that situation. It is interesting how you are more than fine defending innocent people being indiscriminately assaulted based on their nationality. Unless you believe in collective punishment and every Israeli who attended the game deserved to be physically assaulted because some fans were saying bad things and a flag was taking down. I was under the impression by reading this thread that collective punishment is not ok and I agree, so how is it ok now? It’s just very interesting how there is always a defence when innocent Israelis are being attacked.
Even if you presume every single Israeli who was attacked were responsible for the distasteful chants and the stealing of property I am pretty sure that does not give you the right to assault them in a country with law and order. You call the police.
I agree. Lots of innocent people targeted here and it’s disgusting regardless of the target.
You point goes both ways, though. We’ve spent a year reading people justify Israel’s disproportionate response and still today see people suggesting that if it wasn’t for October 7, or the 100 hostages, or everything else, this wouldn’t be happening. “F—- around and find out” has been used.
I think the attack on Israeli soccer fans is horrible and rightly condemned by the world. And yes, it’s horrible that some Israeli soccer fans were shouting anti-Arab epithets, desecrating their flag, and attacking people, but that doesn’t mean the many innocent people among them should have feared for their lives.
I would hope, at least, looking at this event through that lens, defenders of this genocide would take pause. Or did the attacked have a right to respond and is this just another episode of “F around and find out”? I doubt it.
I agree. Lots of innocent people targeted here and it’s disgusting regardless of the target.
You point goes both ways, though. We’ve spent a year reading people justify Israel’s disproportionate response and still today see people suggesting that if it wasn’t for October 7, or the 100 hostages, or everything else, this wouldn’t be happening. “F—- around and find out” has been used.
I think the attack on Israeli soccer fans is horrible and rightly condemned by the world. And yes, it’s horrible that some Israeli soccer fans were shouting anti-Arab epithets, desecrating their flag, and attacking people, but that doesn’t mean the many innocent people among them should have feared for their lives.
I would hope, at least, looking at this event through that lens, defenders of this genocide would take pause. Or did the attacked have a right to respond and is this just another episode of “F around and find out”? I doubt it.
Completely fair comments. I have spent a good amount of time re-evaluating my own stance on this conflict and while I still disagree with certain language you and others use to describe what is taking place in Gaza I have no want for Israel to continue operating in Gaza and subjecting innocent Palestinians to awful conditions. I stay out of this thread as I feel uncomfortable with the current Israeli government and the direction Israel is taking as a country. I do not have much to add besides that but this situation really upsets me as it would be sad if my Israeli family members, who want this war to end and have actively protested Netanyahu for years, now have to be careful where they speak Hebrew and who they tell they are Israeli to when travelling abroad.
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Disgusting antisemitism on full view in Amsterdam last night as Jewish soccer fans were targeted and violently beaten by pro-Palestinian protesters. Rescue planes flew from Israel to the Netherlands to evacuate Israelis. Not a surprise. A direct result of months of encampments and protests and calls for action against Israelis and Jewish people by any means necessary, ignored by Western authorities.
That this occurred days before Remembrance Day in a country that Canadian soldiers gave their lives defending is outrageous.
You really do love to play the victim card.
Disgusting? How many children were murdered? Shot in the head? Shredded to bits?
And you conveniently in the midst of playing your sad antisemitism card forget to mention the disgusting celebration of the slaughter of thousands of children.
They went looking for trouble and got it. You want to go around celebrating the slaughter of children there's a very real chance someone will rightly feed you your teeth.
Every time I poke my head in this thread I regret it.
With so many people who obviously know everything and claim to have humanity's best interests in their hearts, you would think they would at least be able to stop arguing. The folks who think they know the most seem to be the worst for perpetuating the problem. Not naming names or anything.
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Disgusting? How many children were murdered? Shot in the head? Shredded to bits?
And you conveniently in the midst of playing your sad antisemitism card forget to mention the disgusting celebration of the slaughter of thousands of children.
They went looking for trouble and got it. You want to go around celebrating the slaughter of children there's a very real chance someone will rightly feed you your teeth.
Care to take 10 seconds and condemn what happened?
Didn’t think so. It was far from a spontaneous response to fans looking for trouble.
But sure give me your usual wah wah, victim card, anti-Semitic card. Your predictability is tiring.
You think what they did was justified? Of course you do.
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Care to take 10 seconds and condemn what happened?
Didn’t think so. It was far from a spontaneous response to fans looking for trouble.
Absolutely.
Totally condemn when so called fans enter as guests of a foreign city and they attack private property.
I totally condemn their racist singing about the Arabs.
Totally condemn their disgusting jeering and total disrespect for the minutes silences for the victims of Valencia.
And you'd think it wouldn't have to be said but totally condemn the disgusting vile singing of a song celebrating the murder of thousands of children.
You haven't condemned or responded to any of that behavior simply trying to play your whiny pathetic antisemitism card. That you're ignoring the sick racist chanting and celebrating of infanticide speaks volumes about you.
They tried to bring their sick celebratory genocidal culture out of Israel and got slapped for it.
And people are wise to your behaviour MHB. Play the antisemitic card every chance you get to try and justify ongoing slaughter.
They tried to bring their sick celebratory genocidal culture out of Israel and got slapped for it.
And people are wise to your behaviour MHB. Play the antisemitic card every chance you get to try and justify ongoing slaughter.
The King of the Netherlands and other European leaders disagree.
But I get the lens through which you see all of this. Pre and post October 7.
And your ongoing attempts to diminish, even normalize anti-Semitic behaviour, now with several doses of violence and beatings added, are gross. And people are wise to it.
Last edited by Manhattanboy; 11-09-2024 at 08:00 AM.
I agree. Lots of innocent people targeted here and it’s disgusting regardless of the target.
You point goes both ways, though. We’ve spent a year reading people justify Israel’s disproportionate response and still today see people suggesting that if it wasn’t for October 7, or the 100 hostages, or everything else, this wouldn’t be happening. “F—- around and find out” has been used.
I think the attack on Israeli soccer fans is horrible and rightly condemned by the world. And yes, it’s horrible that some Israeli soccer fans were shouting anti-Arab epithets, desecrating their flag, and attacking people, but that doesn’t mean the many innocent people among them should have feared for their lives.
I would hope, at least, looking at this event through that lens, defenders of this genocide would take pause. Or did the attacked have a right to respond and is this just another episode of “F around and find out”? I doubt it.
If you disagree with the bolded state your case. Do you think it would be happening with a docile Gaza instead of a provocative one? If so why? Why didn't it happen before Oct. 7 then? Oct 7 was not proximate cause for the worst Israeli actions but it's a necessary prerequisite. I would also argue that it was proximate cause for some kind of military response from Israel, as "just take it" wasn't in the viable range of responses.
And I didn't say that the Israeli response was proportionate. My point was that Hamas provoking an Israeli response and was the absolute stupidest thing they could've done if they actually cared about Palestinians, especially if they believe that Israel wants to wipe them out.
For you to compare the Isreali fan actions to Oct 7th is pretty gross. If Palestinians had been burning Isreali flags and using anti-Semitic language, I would not consider that a provocation for a military response. And I would grant that any Palestinian or group of Palestinians being physically attacked in Amsterdam had the right to physically defend themselves.
But, just as I don't think Oct 7th justifies genoicide, I don't grant anyone the right to escalate from shouting even racist things and desecrating a flag to assault. It may not be wise, but the right to offend is an important freedom. When the line is crossed into hate speech and incitation it should be dealt with legally. There is no equivalent freedom for Hamas to murder and kidnap Israeli civilians.
Absolutely.
Totally condemn when so called fans enter as guests of a foreign city and they attack private property.
I totally condemn their racist singing about the Arabs.
Totally condemn their disgusting jeering and total disrespect for the minutes silences for the victims of Valencia.
And you'd think it wouldn't have to be said but totally condemn the disgusting vile singing of a song celebrating the murder of thousands of children.
You haven't condemned or responded to any of that behavior simply trying to play your whiny pathetic antisemitism card. That you're ignoring the sick racist chanting and celebrating of infanticide speaks volumes about you.
They tried to bring their sick celebratory genocidal culture out of Israel and got slapped for it.
And people are wise to your behaviour MHB. Play the antisemitic card every chance you get to try and justify ongoing slaughter.
Ridiculous response. It’s become very clear that the attacks against Jews did not come as a result of any taunting which occurred and was some sort of spontaneous reaction, but was rather a pre-meditated plan to stake out and target Jews. There’s videos of groups of these thugs asking people to show their passports via intimidation, and beating up those that had Israeli passports or were assumed to be Jewish. Evidence of Telegram/Whatsapp groups set up for coordination of systematically hunting down Jews. There’s not even any doubt here.
Was there some taunting/singing coming from the Maccabi supporters? The poster below showed videos of it, so clearly there was tension building. There’s also Pro-Palestinian rallies almost daily around the world with chants of “from the river to the see”, “globalize the intifada”, targeting of Jewish businesses, burning of Israeli flags, and taunting Jews and supporters of Israel, etc. I guess in your twisted viewpoint, that would give Jews the right to hunt down and target/assault the Pro-Palestinian protesters?
You have your opinion that a genocide is occurring in Gaza, and that’s your right. But your inability to look past that and condemn a very clear case of blatant anti-semitism is very telling as to your character.
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Last edited by Language; 11-09-2024 at 08:49 AM.
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The King of the Netherlands and other European leaders disagree.
But I get the lens through which you see all of this. Pre and post October 7.
And your ongoing attempts to diminish, even normalize anti-Semitic behaviour, now with several doses of violence and beatings added, are gross. And people are wise to it.
You may want to take a minute and look at the reality of the events that night before condemning every instance as anti-semitism. Tell me, what is this?
Boys being boys? innocent fun?
Quote:
Groups of Maccabi fans reportedly went through the city, confronting the pro-Palestine protesters and generally causing trouble. Videos show Maccabi fans tearing down Palestine flags from the windows of private residences. In one such video, you can hear people serenading the flag-ripper with "#### you, Palestine." Per the NYT, Amsterdam police say some Israeli fans burned one Palestine flag and also vandalized a taxi. One Twitter account posted a video that purportedly shows a Maccabi fan smashing a taxi with a chain.
Quote:
Tensions remained high going into Thursday, the day of the match. Maccabi fans again took to the streets, at times chanting racist phrases like "Death to the Arabs." One chant heard on video goes "Let the IDF win, we will #### the Arabs." Lyrics of that same Maccabi song include "Why is school out in Gaza? There are no children left there."
If you really care about condemning anti-semitism, you are going to have to examine the actions and behaviors of the government of Israel, and that of many Israelis and the IDF and their part in it. As I've said many times, you can only treat people like animals for so long before they turn into them. You shouldn't be shocked when they start biting.
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If you disagree with the bolded state your case. Do you think it would be happening with a docile Gaza instead of a provocative one? If so why? Why didn't it happen before Oct. 7 then? Oct 7 was not proximate cause for the worst Israeli actions but it's a necessary prerequisite. I would also argue that it was proximate cause for some kind of military response from Israel, as "just take it" wasn't in the viable range of responses.
And I didn't say that the Israeli response was proportionate. My point was that Hamas provoking an Israeli response and was the absolute stupidest thing they could've done if they actually cared about Palestinians, especially if they believe that Israel wants to wipe them out.
For you to compare the Isreali fan actions to Oct 7th is pretty gross. If Palestinians had been burning Isreali flags and using anti-Semitic language, I would not consider that a provocation for a military response. And I would grant that any Palestinian or group of Palestinians being physically attacked in Amsterdam had the right to physically defend themselves.
But, just as I don't think Oct 7th justifies genoicide, I don't grant anyone the right to escalate from shouting even racist things and desecrating a flag to assault. It may not be wise, but the right to offend is an important freedom. When the line is crossed into hate speech and incitation it should be dealt with legally. There is no equivalent freedom for Hamas to murder and kidnap Israeli civilians.
Feels like you completely missed my point, which was to illustrate how wrong a disproportionate response that targets innocent people is, in favour of making whatever rambling point you were trying to make here.
It’s honestly hard to tell if you even read my post.
Completely fair comments. I have spent a good amount of time re-evaluating my own stance on this conflict and while I still disagree with certain language you and others use to describe what is taking place in Gaza I have no want for Israel to continue operating in Gaza and subjecting innocent Palestinians to awful conditions. I stay out of this thread as I feel uncomfortable with the current Israeli government and the direction Israel is taking as a country. I do not have much to add besides that but this situation really upsets me as it would be sad if my Israeli family members, who want this war to end and have actively protested Netanyahu for years, now have to be careful where they speak Hebrew and who they tell they are Israeli to when travelling abroad.
The money funnelled to Hamas & Hezbollah allowing them to continually attack Israel is what keeps Netanyahu in charge.
What happened in Amsterdam is the price being paid by everyone thinking they're doing the world a service by blaming Israel for what happened and being sympathetic to terrorists.
Eradicate Hamas & Hezbollah, stop funnelling money to them or other terrorist organizations and stop appeasing Iran / Qatar and this all ends.
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The King of the Netherlands and other European leaders disagree.
But I get the lens through which you see all of this. Pre and post October 7.
And your ongoing attempts to diminish, even normalize anti-Semitic behaviour, now with several doses of violence and beatings added, are gross. And people are wise to it.
Notable that you still haven't condemned and continue to ignore the celebratory singing about the mass murder of thousands of children.
Notable that you still haven't condemned and continue to ignore the racist chanting.
Notable that you haven't condemned and continue to ignore the jeering through the minutes silence for the victims of the Valencia floods.
It's disgusting that you're willing to excuse all this vile behaviour in some pathetic attempt to play your antisemitism card.
Again Gideon Levy has you nailed. Not only the victim. The only victim.
Your lens is to present a victim viewpoint in order to justify violence and genocide.
Go stand in the middle of any major European city and start singing a song celebrating the mass murder of children and see how long it takes before you get slapped. Not because you're a Jew. But because you're a sicko.
You may want to take a minute and look at the reality of the events that night before condemning every instance as anti-semitism.
He's not interested in the reality of the events. All he's interested in is pushing his antisemitism narrative whilst ignoring racism and celebrating mass child murder.
Soccer has had its issues with violence over the years but there's no contest here for the most vile disgusting chant EVER to be sung by any fans in any stadium.
They're singing to celebrate genocide and the mass murder of children and these sickos want to play the blameless victim.
Disgusting antisemitism on full view in Amsterdam last night as Jewish soccer fans were targeted and violently beaten by pro-Palestinian protesters. Rescue planes flew from Israel to the Netherlands to evacuate Israelis. Not a surprise. A direct result of months of encampments and protests and calls for action against Israelis and Jewish people by any means necessary, ignored by Western authorities.
That this occurred days before Remembrance Day in a country that Canadian soldiers gave their lives defending is outrageous.
I just wanted to circle back on this post for a second, because it seems like some people are using the rejection of some of the misinformation here and twisting it into “diminishing” or “making excuses” for what happened. But this post contains some outright lies misinformation, so we should actually be clear as to what happened:
“Rescue planes flew from Israel to the Netherlands”
- they did not, supporters flew home on commercial airlines
“A direct result of months of encampments and protests and calls for action against Israelis and Jewish people by any means necessary, ignored by Western authorities.”
- it was actually a direct result of days of escalating tensions kicked off by Maccabi supporters:
Quote:
Tension began to build on Wednesday as some of the 3,000 visiting Maccabi supporters had minor altercations back and forth with locals including taxi drivers and Ajax supporters in the city centre, police said.
A police report said groups of Maccabi supporters burned a Palestinian flag on Dam square, pulled another down from a nearby building and vandalised a taxi.
After a call went out on social media, angry Muslim taxi drivers gathered outside a casino where a group of 400 Maccabi supporters were gathered, and police intervened amid skirmishes.
Dutch media have reported on videos purportedly showing the beating of a Muslim taxi driver and a group of youths yelling anti-Semitic slurs at a person in a canal said to be a Maccabi supporter who was pushed in.
Reuters was unable to confirm those incidents took place as portrayed.
On the day of the match, Maccabi supporters were filmed chanting anti-Arab slogans in front of the National Monument on Amsterdam's central Dam square, including "#### you Palestine", in videos verified by Reuters.
Police guarded the perimeter but fights around the fringes were reported.
…
Riot police at the stadium kept opposing groups apart and few incidents were reported when the match ended around 11 p.m.
However in the city centre, around midnight, security fell apart.
Calls to target returning Maccabi supporters began circulating on Dutch messaging groups, leading to what mayor Halsema described as "anti-Semitic hit and run assaults".
Yes. This was the anti-semitic targeting of Jewish soccer fans. But erasing the entire lead up to this incident is ignorant and conveniently distorts what is a very ugly situation that got completely out of control.
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You have your opinion that a genocide is occurring in Gaza, and that’s your right. But your inability to look past that and condemn a very clear case of blatant anti-semitism is very telling as to your character.
Haven't heard you either condemn the clear and undisputed racism. Very telling of your character.
Nor the singing of songs celebrating mass murder of children. Again very telling.
It's not anti semitism. It's a bunch of sickos getting slapped for being racist and singing sick songs celebrating mass child murder.
Haven't heard you either condemn the clear and undisputed racism. Very telling of your character.
Nor the singing of songs celebrating mass murder of children. Again very telling.
It's not anti semitism. It's a bunch of sickos getting slapped for being racist and singing sick songs celebrating mass child murder.
Are you condemning the sickos constantly chanting “globalize the intifada” and targeting Jewish businesses? These chants/songs go both ways and are happening on both sides. When it resorts to violence, clear targeting and a plan to target people, it crosses the line. I’d be saying the same thing if it was the other way around. But you clearly have trouble condemning even blatant things. Seems like anything to do with Israel/Jews now means something akin “getting what they deserve” mentality in your opinion.
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