American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by kermitology

He's already proven he's a disaster. Those people don't pay attention to how he's a crook, always has been. Like, go to Western Washington. I was in Moses Lake this summer and that's MAGA country as it comes. Most of the people are blissfully unaware of anything. I was there the weekend that he was shot at. People didn't even talk about it. It was on the TVs, but no one was even looking. It's apathy plain and simple. Voting is a right, but it's also a responsibility and these people are not doing their due diligence.

The last two groups I mentioned - they're the vocal minority.

You seem to have a problem looking at the actual statistical breakdown on how the election went.

Trump won in every demographic ACROSS THE BOARD. Why is that so hard to admit? This isn't just MAGA stuff. This is Americans from every faucet of the country voting for Trump.

[Reggie Dunlop]

RFK Jr. is too much of a loose cannon. He's likely the first cabinet member jettisoned. Vance and the P2025 boys are running the show and will want an obsequious bureaucrat (think Jeffrey Clark type). Banal but zealous.

Besides, it's not as if Trump hasn't welched on promises before. His previous cabinet was a revolving door.

[Paulie Walnuts]

KFC addict and adderall junkie likely doesn't want healthy again.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Azure

You seem to have a problem looking at the actual statistical breakdown on how the election went.

Trump won in every demographic ACROSS THE BOARD. Why is that so hard to admit? This isn't just MAGA stuff. This is Americans from every faucet of the country voting for Trump.

I'm not disagreeing. If you see my original post, the vast majority of the people who voted for him are the ones who are completely disengaged from politics and political life. The vast majority of his voters looked at their current situation and thought life was better with him because frankly they're just too apathetic to understand and apply context.

The vocal minority I was talking about are the young men who are in it for the lulz and just love being able to make libs cry, and the inhumane racists like Stephen Miller who want a white "christian" ethno-state.

The problem is that Trump and his policies are guided by the last group and American oligarchs. The apathetic majority are going to wake up one day and wonder where their friends, family, workers, and rights went.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Azure

You seem to have a problem looking at the actual statistical breakdown on how the election went.

Trump won in every demographic ACROSS THE BOARD. Why is that so hard to admit? This isn't just MAGA stuff. This is Americans from every faucet of the country voting for Trump.

Its hard to admit because it isn't true.

Only ~45% of women voted for Trump.

Only ~13% of black people voted for Trump.

Only ~46% of Hispanics voted for Trump.

Only ~39% of Asians voted for Trump.

Only ~43% of people aged 18-28 voted for Trump.

Only ~48% of people aged 30-44 voted for Trump.

Only ~42% of college graduates voted for Trump.

SOURCE: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0lp48ldgyeo

[woob]

It's just wild to me. You can't go a day on-line (news, social media, etc.) without stumbling across another example of what a PoS he is, how unstable he appears to be, and what he plans to do for his next Presidency. And people still went "yeah, that guy should be President again."

Is this win not the epitomy of post-truth era?

[kermitology]

Everyone should go re-watch Parks and Recreation. Any time they have a public hearing and you see the people who talk.. that's the electorate. This is everywhere around the world. The majority of people are one step above knuckle-dragging morons.

Now where are my electrolytes?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by woob

It's just wild to me. You can't go a day on-line (news, social media, etc.) without stumbling across another example of what a PoS he is, how unstable he appears to be, and what he plans to do for his next Presidency. And people still went "yeah, that guy should be President again."

Is this win not the epitomy of post-truth era?

If you look at the map it was an ass kicking. The people spoke. This is what they want.

Like it's been said everything bad that is about to come their way its well deserved.

Forget everything and if you just listen to that lunatic RFK Jr, the US is about to become a 3rd world country if he has his way with disease everywhere.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by woob

It's just wild to me. You can't go a day on-line (news, social media, etc.) without stumbling across another example of what a PoS he is, how unstable he appears to be, and what he plans to do for his next Presidency. And people still went "yeah, that guy should be President again."

Is this win not the epitomy of post-truth era?

I haven’t been following American politics closely, but have tried (and failed) to keep up on the American political threads here.

It really makes you think of how bad of a candidate and campaign that the Dems ran if they couldn’t beat Trump.

Crazy.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Shouldn't that be the largest concern for Trump voters, since most of them tend to be much poorer? Like, why would you want to support the guy who has all the support of billionaires because he's promise dot cut their taxes and make them richer? Where does the money come from for that? Oh ya, the dumb Trump voters who somehow believe the orange monstrosity cares about them. It's just kind of sad how much intelligence and ability to think critically about outcomes that these voters have. It's not their fault the system utterly failed them, they really don't stand a chance. But when they vote and support Trump with such utter cockyness and complete lack of empathy for others, well, it makes it pretty easy to write them all of as imbeciles. Well, not the rich ones who know where their next big payday is coming from. For them it makes sense.

I keep bringing this up and get called a Trumper, but what a lot of people want to ignore is that prior to COVID, the economy was extremely strong under Trump.

Even taking into account 2020 and the massive economic impact that had, real median household income grew 6.3% under Trump. Obama also did well before that, his second term had growth of 7.8%. But if COVID hadn't happened, that number would have been higher and likely much closer to Obama's. You simply can't ignore that the economy was doing great under Trump prior to COVID. This includes 2019, just prior to COVID when real median household income grew at 6.7% that year alone, which is the single highest year of growth in the last 40 years.

Now you can try and argue that this performance was due to a lot of Obama's policies, but then you lose the ability to say that anything Trump did hurt the middle or lower class - you can't have that both ways. In my opinion, you can't really argue that three years into Trump's term when you see the highest real household income growth in a long time, that Trump had nothing to do with it.

There are many many many many reasons Trump should not be President, but to dismiss that the economy was doing great with him prior to COVID, and the lower and middle class reaped benefits of that, and that is driving what we saw in the election results is being very willfully ignorant.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I keep bringing this up and get called a Trumper, but what a lot of people want to ignore is that prior to COVID, the economy was extremely strong under Trump.

Even taking into account 2020 and the massive economic impact that had, real median household income grew 6.3% under Trump. Obama also did well before that, his second term had growth of 7.8%. But if COVID hadn't happened, that number would have been higher and likely much closer to Obama's. You simply can't ignore that the economy was doing great under Trump prior to COVID. This includes 2019, just prior to COVID when real median household income grew at 6.7% that year alone, which is the single highest year of growth in the last 40 years.

Now you can try and argue that this performance was due to a lot of Obama's policies, but then you lose the ability to say that anything Trump did hurt the middle or lower class - you can't have that both ways. In my opinion, you can't really argue that three years into Trump's term when you see the highest real household income growth in a long time, that Trump had nothing to do with it.

I don't follow your logic/reasoning here...

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by Azure

You seem to have a problem looking at the actual statistical breakdown on how the election went.

Trump won in every demographic ACROSS THE BOARD. Why is that so hard to admit? This isn't just MAGA stuff. This is Americans from every faucet of the country voting for Trump.

It seems like people are making stuff up most often when they make statements like that. Can provide a reference to back that up?

Maybe you are correct. I need to see the data though.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I don't know where the superiority comes into play with the down talking to people who are not perceived as smart or ones with an education in something higher than a high school diploma. I am by no means a big Trump fan but the amount of higher educated, wealthy, uber wealthy and successful business people who are in favor of a lot of his policies is very high. The Democrats did get a lot of celebrity endorsements from high profile people but Trump did have some of the worlds heavy hitters up to batt with him all along, not just social media posts. I fully understand that people like Bezos, Musk and a whole host of billionaires are going to benefit substantially from these policies but there is the other side of the coin to be debated..

Sorry Everyone taking the bait.

I think your premise that Trump carried Wealthy / Successful people is unsubstantiated. And you are drawing on a few high-profile examples, rather than looking at this statistically. I can do that too, Mark Cuban, didn't really prove my point.

I also think it's a big leap to say that wealthy / successful = smart. There are a ton of reason people end up wealthy and successful, and it would be hard to boil them down to a single cause such as 'smart'.

On a statistical level, education would seem to be the best corollary for smart, and Harris carried the most educated group 61-37. Not a damning indictment of Trump, but definitely shows that people how have had more opportunity to learn have a strong preference for Harris.

On a personal level, I really can't watch even 4%-5% of what Trump has done or said over the past 9 years and square the idea that an interested, engaged and thoughtful voter can think he is a legitimate choice on any level, unless their intent is something I would find to be pernicious. So when I do meet a Trump supporter, even while I might use kinder words I cannot help be believe they are either pernicious, disinterested, disengaged, or unthoughtful.

The pernicious, I just don't think there are that many of the people. I think there is a large group that could care less if others are harmed, as long as they 'improve' their lot in life. I'd challenge them on what improve means, because I do generally believe there is a sense in which a rising tide raises all boats, and if you drain the pool everyone will sink. But there is a lot of good research that people care more about their well being relative to others over their net wellbeing, so it stands to reason that someone these people don't mind being worse off, as long as they are better off that others.

I would really like to think that Trump voters are just disengaged people that don't know what they are doing. But the more you talk to these people the more you realize that they are very much engaged, a lot of what they say has pretty questionable grounding in reality. But they really do know who Trump is, and they really do know what he is saying.

The Disinterested, again is a group who I would minimize the impact of, because I assume they are exceedingly likely not to vote.

So in my world view, I am left truly believing that a plurality of people willing to support this weirdo are unthoughtful, as in not thinking about the veracity of statements they hear, and not thinking about the consequences of their actions. You can call it dumb it you want, it sounds pretty dumb to me.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I don't follow your logic/reasoning here...

If Trump was terrible for the economy, and only did things that helped the ultra-rich, and the lower/middle class got poorer under Trump, why did real median household income rise so much under Trump?

If it's because Obama's policies were great, then clearly nothing Trump did hurt the economy much prior to COVID, because three years into Trump's term, the economy grew at the highest level over the last 40 years.

You can't simultaneously claim that Trump was terrible for the lower/middle class and that the only reason the economy was doing well was because of Obama's policies.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

If you look at the map it was an ass kicking. The people spoke. This is what they want.

Like it's been said everything bad that is about to come their way its well deserved.

Forget everything and if you just listen to that lunatic RFK Jr, the US is about to become a 3rd world country if he has his way with disease everywhere.

The us has been a 3rd world country since Sandy Hook.

These effers better not mess with their theme parks!!

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

The us has been a 3rd world country since Sandy Hook.

These effers better not mess with their theme parks!!

Things probably started going downhill after 9/11 and the federal government's overreach tbh.

Sandy Hook was almost an inevitability of the policies enacted by W.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I keep bringing this up and get called a Trumper, but what a lot of people want to ignore is that prior to COVID, the economy was extremely strong under Trump.

Even taking into account 2020 and the massive economic impact that had, real median household income grew 6.3% under Trump. Obama also did well before that, his second term had growth of 7.8%. But if COVID hadn't happened, that number would have been higher and likely much closer to Obama's. You simply can't ignore that the economy was doing great under Trump prior to COVID. This includes 2019, just prior to COVID when real median household income grew at 6.7% that year alone, which is the single highest year of growth in the last 40 years.

Now you can try and argue that this performance was due to a lot of Obama's policies, but then you lose the ability to say that anything Trump did hurt the middle or lower class - you can't have that both ways. In my opinion, you can't really argue that three years into Trump's term when you see the highest real household income growth in a long time, that Trump had nothing to do with it.

There are many many many many reasons Trump should not be President, but to dismiss that the economy was doing great with him prior to COVID, and the lower and middle class reaped benefits of that, and that is driving what we saw in the election results is being very willfully ignorant.

The role of the government should be to smooth the valleys and peaks of the economy.

Trump inherited a healthy growing economy and threw gas on the fire and did it with unfunded tax cuts. It wasn't sustainable and he left a time bomb for the next guy.

Now that we don't have a real press that anyone listens to anymore, it is a winning political strategy. We really shouldn't be voting for someone who can grow the economy the most at all costs, and no thought of the future. But it seems to be a winning strategy for now.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Its hard to admit because it isn't true.

Only ~45% of women voted for Trump.

Only ~13% of black people voted for Trump.

Only ~46% of Hispanics voted for Trump.

Only ~39% of Asians voted for Trump.

Only ~43% of people aged 18-28 voted for Trump.

Only ~48% of people aged 30-44 voted for Trump.

Only ~42% of college graduates voted for Trump.

SOURCE: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0lp48ldgyeo

Now go look at the growth of all those demographics from 2020 to 2024.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by eric vail

it seems like people are making stuff up most often when they make statements like that. Can provide a reference to back that up?

Maybe you are correct. I need to see the data though.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1854194300021887214

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

It seems like people are making stuff up most often when they make statements like that. Can provide a reference to back that up?

Maybe you are correct. I need to see the data though.

I did my own research and found this: https://www.nbcwashington.com/decisi...arris/3762138/

He did not win against every demographic. That is simply untrue.

Black, Hispanic and Asian all cast more votes for Harris than Trump.
White and "other" showed Trump in the lead.

54% of men voted Trump.
54% of women voted Harris.

Harris led in the under 44 age group.
Trump lead in the 45-64 group
Over 65 they were split.

Harris had higher numbers in those with a Bachelor or Advanced Degree
Trump had higher numbers in those with less education.

Nice to dispel disinformation. There is too much of it these days.