The Legend of Sam Bennett

[memphusk]

Players are soft. Bennett is not one of them. Would of loved to see Bennett long term with Sutter as the lead.

[Coach]

If we had hired Sutter when we hired Peters, I think there's 3-5 contending seasons there, and I think Bennett is a totally different player. Sutter-type coaches are good for young, hungry teams. There was only 1-2 seasons left in the tank for a Sutter-type coach by the time he was hired.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Sutter was fired, in part, because of how he treated non players in the organization.

Yeah, that was really disappointing to hear. There's a lot of respected hard asses across the sports world and one constant is that the fiery, demanding coach you see in practice and on camera is very kind and open with equipment/arena staff. It seemed near the end Sutter had either lost that or never had it and we just hadn't heard about it before.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think Hartley is the perfect coach for a very young team - he has his warts, but he seems really good around young players and teaches them to play 2-way hockey. The Vets hated him, but the young players loved him. Sutter is definitely the coach you hire when you should be contending, but have disappointed. I know both coaches have their critics (especially Hartley on these boards), but I think they are both extremely good coaches even if they are tolerable for only a few seasons. In a perfect world, Hartley would have been stomached for one more season (I think he would have had Bennett and Tkachuk playing together, much like he put Monahan with Baertschi and then Monahan with Gaudreau), and Darryl brought in the next year (he was not available, but this is an imaginary timeline). Darryl would have been much more palatable to the group, I think, right after Hartley. Going from Gulutzan to Hartley was too large a swing (ignoring the fact that Gulutzan probably wasn't a good coach).



However, I do think the NHL is changing. I think a coach like Huska is exactly they type of coach you bring in and hold onto. He is fantastic with the media - I don't think the Flames have had a better coach doing pre and post game scrums. He is thoughtful, insightful, and he seems to have answers for all situations. I thought Ward was the absolute worst as he didn't seem to have the answers (if he did, he didn't talk about them). Sutter was very insightful - when he wanted to be. Hartley was great with the media and was also insightful, but much more colourful in the media than Huska. I am trying to remember Badger Bob, but hockey just wasn't covered back then like it is now, but Huska reminds me a bit of Badger Bob, but just with a lot more swearing LoL.



I am hoping that Huska ends up like Cooper. A long-term hire that is implementing a certain culture and gets to stay long term to make sure that culture doesn't go away. I love how he runs hard practices at full-speed by the sounds of it - wants things to go at game speed. Hartley did this, and the Oilers did not. The Oilers at that time had some fast players, but they played slow, while the Flames under Hartley played fast. I disliked Gulutzan because he slowed things down. If you aren't practicing at game-speed, how do you suppose you can execute at game speed?


I am absolutely loving what Huska is doing. Firm - last year he benched Huberdeau in a game knowing full well it would create a media sensation, but he did it anyway. Last night he sat Pospisil out for a while after his second minor penalty. Huska is a player's coach who is very insightful and intelligent, but is not scared in the least of holding players accountable right away. I think he is going to stick here for a long time. Say what you will about the Flames now, but they are overachieving and I think a lot of that has to do with Huska.

[jaikorven]

Out of thanks, so thanks for this post. ^^^^

[Erick Estrada]

I will say Huska has exceeded my expectations so far. I thought the Flames played well last season considering all the distractions of players wanting out and so far he's got them playing over their heads this season. The challenge for him will be when he's afforded a team with high expectations but I don't expect that will be for another few years.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think Hartley is the perfect coach for a very young team - he has his warts, but he seems really good around young players and teaches them to play 2-way hockey. The Vets hated him, but the young players loved him. Sutter is definitely the coach you hire when you should be contending, but have disappointed. I know both coaches have their critics (especially Hartley on these boards), but I think they are both extremely good coaches even if they are tolerable for only a few seasons. In a perfect world, Hartley would have been stomached for one more season (I think he would have had Bennett and Tkachuk playing together, much like he put Monahan with Baertschi and then Monahan with Gaudreau), and Darryl brought in the next year (he was not available, but this is an imaginary timeline). Darryl would have been much more palatable to the group, I think, right after Hartley. Going from Gulutzan to Hartley was too large a swing (ignoring the fact that Gulutzan probably wasn't a good coach).

That's not quite the case. Some vets liked him and some didn't because he played favorites. Stajan liked him because he liked Stajan and it was only after some less favoured players came to him that he noticed what was going on and lost respect for Hartley. And Hartley was rough on some young players - Baertcshi for example.

With Sutter at least he was sour with press as well as players. Hartley was Mr. Jovial with the press and a mean SOB behind the scenes.

[SuperMatt18]

Hartley got lucky in the 14-15 season but he was bad in the two seasons before that and the 15-16 season.

The issue wasn't firing Hartley, that was the right move. It was replacing him with Gulutzan.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Hartley got lucky in the 14-15 season but he was bad in the two seasons before that and the 15-16 season.

The issue wasn't firing Hartley, that was the right move. It was replacing him with Gulutzan.

https://youtu.be/xuNWLMBz1fI?si=9IiQQq9XdUWtjUs3

https://youtu.be/PfUGqlqCok0?si=uVT4Gu9EnT1h7680

[BigThief]

Curtis Glenncross signed his second deal with the Flames in May of 2011, two months before free agency. So I don't know what other offers were out that for higher and more term. If they were it was very unofficial and tampering.

And not speaking to his relationship with Hartley but injuries caught up to him fast. He was a shell of the player he was at that point. When he became a UFA in 2015 not one team offered him a contract. The Leafs eventually came around with a try out but didn't sign him after.

Bob might not have liked him but he was done.

[SuperMatt18]

It actually makes me laugh a little that some posters have this retroactive love for Hartley and act like his firing was a big mistake, when really his performance was even worse than Gulutzan.

Hartley - GP: 294; PTS%: .498; Best Season: .591 (97 pts - 45-30-7)

Gulutzan - GP: 164; PTS%: .543; Best Season: .573 (94 pts - 45-33-4)

Hartley put up a .470 in 15-16 and deservedly was fired. Gulutzan wasn't a good coach and even he never put up a season worse than .512 (or .500 if you include his 2 seasons in Dallas too).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It actually makes me laugh a little that some posters have this retroactive love for Hartley and act like his firing was a big mistake, when really his performance was even worse than Gulutzan.

Hartley - GP: 294; PTS%: .498; Best Season: .591 (97 pts - 45-30-7)

Gulutzan - GP: 164; PTS%: .543; Best Season: .573 (94 pts - 45-33-4)

Hartley put up a .470 in 15-16 and deservedly was fired. Gulutzan wasn't a good coach and even he never put up a season worse than .512 (or .500 if you include his 2 seasons in Dallas too).

GG did a few good things. His beers on the bus got results, at least short term. He made the POs his first year (after taking over a .470 team).

[Locke]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It actually makes me laugh a little that some posters have this retroactive love for Hartley and act like his firing was a big mistake, when really his performance was even worse than Gulutzan.

Hartley - GP: 294; PTS%: .498; Best Season: .591 (97 pts - 45-30-7)

Gulutzan - GP: 164; PTS%: .543; Best Season: .573 (94 pts - 45-33-4)

Hartley put up a .470 in 15-16 and deservedly was fired. Gulutzan wasn't a good coach and even he never put up a season worse than .512 (or .500 if you include his 2 seasons in Dallas too).

It wasnt a mistake, but I still think some love is required.

He broke Tortorella. And...lets be honest...that was some of the most entertaining hockey we'd seen in years.

This is still an entertainment business and Hartley was like a Circus Ringmaster.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It actually makes me laugh a little that some posters have this retroactive love for Hartley and act like his firing was a big mistake, when really his performance was even worse than Gulutzan.

Hartley - GP: 294; PTS%: .498; Best Season: .591 (97 pts - 45-30-7)

Gulutzan - GP: 164; PTS%: .543; Best Season: .573 (94 pts - 45-33-4)

Hartley put up a .470 in 15-16 and deservedly was fired. Gulutzan wasn't a good coach and even he never put up a season worse than .512 (or .500 if you include his 2 seasons in Dallas too).

Of course people are going to wax poetic about Hartley.

Hartley missed playoffs, but had a younger, less deep, and less experienced team playing an entertaining style that resulted in scoring a lot of goals, albeit also leaking quite a lot of goals. He massively overachieved with those rosters and brought playoff hockey back to the Dome after the horrific B. Sutter era.

GG missed the playoffs by making a roster with a healthy Gaudreau-Monahan duo, the 3M line, a solid defense (Hamilton, prime Gio, and prime Brodie), and a still decent Mike Smith play a passive system that resulted in low event hockey. It was legitimately awful hockey to watch that didn't result in scoring goals or preventing goals.

Hartley and GG's win-loss records might be a wash, but why would anyone have any love for GG after both underacheiving and putting a boring product on the ice...

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yeah, Hartley was brought in to blow up the country club and instill work ethic

It makes me laugh that some posters completely ignore the context and just pull up the stats

Kiprusoff and Iginla out… Josh Jooris in.. and the guy takes them to the playoffs.

And defending Gulutzan? Sending both D to the corners while Mike Smith decides who he is passing to. *shudder*
I guess the stick toss was good for a laugh. Too bad it was his team laughing at him

[ComixZone]

Gulutzan was always an Oiler.

Brad Treliving hired an Oiler as his head coach.

Doom.

[SuperMatt18]

In the end the point of the post is that both coaches were bad.

Hartley had 1 good season out of 4.

Gulutzan had 1 good season out of 2.

There is a reason neither guy has been a head coach in the NHL since.

[Jay Random]

Hartley was one of those coaches that players put up with as long as his methods are showing results. ‘Yeah, he's a total SOB, but at least we're winning.’

But those results came by pushing players to the limit in all sorts of ways through negative reinforcement, and that's hard to sustain for very long. So the following season: ‘Yeah, he's still a total SOB and we're not even winning, so either he goes or I go!’

It's happened with better coaches than Hartley. Reports were that the Flames let Bob Johnson go in 1987 because several veterans demanded to be traded if he stayed. Terry Crisp, of course, faced a full dressing-room rebellion in 1990. Darryl Sutter's button-pushing stopped working in his last year here, and he was out the door before coaching a single game under his expensive new contract.

I think pretty much any GM would have sacked Hartley after his last season here.

[Eric Vail]

I don't think Bob Johnson got let go by the organization. He was offered a promotion to take over USA Hockey and took it. He also was known for his positivity. I don't think he can be lumped in with Sutter, Crisp, Hartley as he was more of a player's coach.

[FBI]

What thread am I in??
Bennett with 6 goals so far