2024/2025 Season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Not sure why you are judging a teams rebuild success based upon recent playoffs.

If, as the rebuild crowd keep saying, the object of a rebuild is to win the Stanley Cup, it is obviously much too early to say that either Chicago or San Jose have succeeded.

They are in the earlier stages of a rebuild. I would base it not on their records but on their stable of young talent. And each of those teams has accumulated a plethora of young, potentially elite, talent.

It took Chicago seven years out of the playoffs to get that talent, and San Jose five, and neither team is anywhere near competing yet.

Let's just pump the brakes on calling either of those rebuilds ‘successful’, OK?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by traptor

Each of the cup winners of the last decade had atleast one top 4 star player that they drafted around within 10 years of wining, except Vegas.
Vegas couldn't meet this requirement as they didn't exist. They did go out and acquire this star player in Eichel.

2024 - Florida Panthers - barkov
2023 - Vegas Golden Knights
2022 - Colorado Avalanche - mack
2021 - Tampa Bay Lightning - hedman
2020 - Tampa Bay Lightning
2019 - St. Louis Blues - pietrangelo
2018 - Washington Capitals - ovechkin
2017 - Pittsburgh Penguins - crosby
2016 - Pittsburgh Penguins
2015 - Chicago Blackhawks - kane
2014 - Los Angeles Kings - doughty

There were 40 players drafted top 4 between 2004-2014.
18 teams draft top 4. 8/18 of those teams won atleast 1 cup between 2014-2024.
12 teams didn't get a top 4 pick between 2004-2014. None of them went on to win a cup between 2014-2024.

Its definitely not a gurantee or even a requirement but it's a VERY strong trend.

A deeper understanding of this analysis would be to add all the teams that lost that year for each year while having players that met your criteria on their roster. A VERY strong trend appears clear when you limit the data included in your analysis.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Well, Chicago clearly tried to tank prior to them winning 3 Stanley Cups, as did Pittsburgh.

Chicago didn't try to tank, they had an owner who didn't care and wouldn't spend money. Pittsburgh didn't try to tank, they went broke. The franchise came very close to relocating, but the potential buyer pissed off the other teams' owners and the deal fell through.

Moreover, Pittsburgh drafted the two very best centres of their generation in consecutive years. That opportunity may never happen again, and it is beyond foolish to make that part of your plan.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think it’s more accurate to say that most teams who have won have had a centre playing like one of the top 10 centres in the league. If you look at all the teams who have made the finals in the last decade (which I would qualify as “having a chance to win”) in addition to the teams that won, it’s a little less definitive. Top 10 centre, top 10 defenceman, and top 5 goaltender. Oh, and a great coach.

I’d argue that a hot goaltender is a much more crucial “must have.” But any team that doesn’t check all of these boxes is going to struggle to have a chance. And none of them really require a specific pedigree, they just need to hit an elite level, together, at the right time.

Part of the problem in just looking at winners is that some guys get that winner “bump” in reputation, despite it being a team game. The same thing that happens to middle six wingers happens to top centres and goaltenders, but the difference is that we kind of make a joke about middling guys earning that reputation. Chicago didn’t win because of Toews alone, but Toews’ reputation certainly benefited from winning. Not saying he was a whole lot worse than his reputation, but there’s no denying the revisionist history than happens (look at O’Reilly and Ovechkin, for clearer examples).

And of those (recently) Mackinnon and Barkov were high draft picks, O'Reilly and Eichel were trades, Kuznetsov was a late first and Point was a second rounder.

[sureLoss]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...-their-record/

Conroy's top priority is still to find an “age-appropriate” centre, which he defines as being a player between 23 and 25 who has pro experience.

Someone who can be part of the long-term plan in Calgary.

Think Kirby Dach, a six-foot-four, 221-pound 23-year-old who shoots from the right side.

Costly, as he was traded by Chicago for a first and third rounder.

The question is what sort of assets the Flames would be willing to part with for a middle-man of any significance?

“Unless you have some injuries and needed to do something, sending a first-round pick for a guy who would be here for a year doesn’t make much sense,” said the GM, mindful of the rebuild afoot.

“But if it was a first-round pick for a guy who would be here long term, we would be open to that.”

“Centres are tough. It’s a hard market.

“If you have them, you don’t really want to give them up. So that’s my job, to look and see if it’s out there.”

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...-their-record/

I sure hope he doesn't find one, and has to draft and develop his own. It's the best course of action.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And of those (recently) Mackinnon and Barkov were high draft picks, O'Reilly and Eichel were trades, Kuznetsov was a late first and Point was a second rounder.

Point was a third round pick.

Bergeron was a second round pick.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I sure hope he doesn't find one, and has to draft and develop his own. It's the best course of action.

Yes, however, some times other teams do stupid things. So it never hurts to keep kicking tires and let the season play out.

[Toonage]

I remember being surprised that the Blackhawks gave up on Dach when they did. And now it starting to sound like Montreal may be souring on him? Or am I reading too much into this?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If, as the rebuild crowd keep saying, the object of a rebuild is to win the Stanley Cup, it is obviously much too early to say that either Chicago or San Jose have succeeded.



It took Chicago seven years out of the playoffs to get that talent, and San Jose five, and neither team is anywhere near competing yet.

Let's just pump the brakes on calling either of those rebuilds ‘successful’, OK?

Chicago pushed their veteran, three-time Stanley Cup Champions core as long and as hard as they could. That's what resulted in their 7 years out.

In that same 7 year stretch, the Flames have missed the playoffs five times.

(We're counting the 19/20 play-in as misses for this example on both fronts)

I'd sooner take Chicago's last 7 years + their new foundation (Levshunov, Boisvert, Vanacker, Bedard, Moore, Korchinski, Nazar, Rinzel -> all drafted in the last 3 years) than Calgary's last 7 years + our relative lack of foundation today.

If we were to look at the next 5 years, I take Chicago's depth chart 100% of the time.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I sure hope he doesn't find one, and has to draft and develop his own. It's the best course of action.

He can do both -- as long as the first round picks he's dangling are the Vegas/New Jersey/Florida first rounders and not a Calgary first rounders.

A young centre like Dach would be good in the medium and long term plans, but that player isn't immediately going to pull a team out of the basement. I mean look at Montreal. They made that trade and the next year had the fifth overall pick. (They also had the fifth the following year and are workign there way towards another bottom 10 pick this year, but Dach was injured last and hasn't had a great start so far this year).

A young centre with good potential is just one part of a team.

I'd be more worried if Conroy is offering Calgary's first rounder at this point of the season for a Dach type player, as that pick could be a very high pick.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Chicago pushed their veteran, three-time Stanley Cup Champions core as long and as hard as they could. That's what resulted in their 7 years out.

In that same 7 year stretch, the Flames have missed the playoffs five times.

(We're counting the 19/20 play-in as misses for this example on both fronts)

I'd sooner take Chicago's last 7 years + their new foundation (Levshunov, Boisvert, Vanacker, Bedard, Moore, Korchinski, Nazar, Rinzel -> all drafted in the last 3 years) than Calgary's last 7 years + our relative lack of foundation today.

If we were to look at the next 5 years, I take Chicago's depth chart 100% of the time.

Why? Flames won the play in round and were neck and neck with the stanley cup finalists in round one

[SuperMatt18]

There aren't a lot of U-25 RH shot centers that I think could possibly even be available.

Ignoring some of the guys that for sure aren't available you get a pretty narrow list:

Kirby Dach
Phil Tomasino
Shane Pinto
Dawson Mercer
Mavrik Bourque
Chaz Lucius

Maybe some older guys with less upside like Akil Thomas or Rasmus Kupari too.

Not a long list. The team that could potentially have one to move, but would be looking to upgrade elsewhere is probably Winnipeg. Kupari, Lucius, and Lambert are all listed as RH shots that can play center.

The real problem to me is that the easiest way for the Flames to get one of these younger RH shot centers probably isn't by moving futures, it would be in a package for the team trying to acquire something like Andersson which likely isn't on the table.

The name I think could also be likely in the more short term is Philip Tomasino. Was a late signing after what seemed like a bit of a rough negotiation with Nashville, he was healthy scratched last week, he has 0 points in 4 games and the Preds are off to a terrible start. He's kind of their version of Pelletier a little bit.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I sure hope he doesn't find one, and has to draft and develop his own. It's the best course of action.

These blanket statements miss the mark.

Which player are the Flames looking at? What pick/player/asset are they giving up?

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I remember being surprised that the Blackhawks gave up on Dach when they did. And now it starting to sound like Montreal may be souring on him? Or am I reading too much into this?

Tough to really know with Montreal. That fanbase doesn't have a lot of patience and Dach has had a poor start to the season after missing last year. Like with Calgary fans, Dach could just be the current slow start whipping boy for the fans, but Montreal's executive may believe he just needs more time.

[Toonage]

I had totally forgotten about his injury last year

[HitterD]

Dach is interesting. Plenty of injury history but fits the age, position and size needs of the Flames. I wonder what it would take to pry him out of MTL?

I'm not exactly interested in doing MTL any favours after the Monahan fiasco. MTL gave up a 13th and 66th pick for him, but he has since only played 66 games for them (41 points though isnt too bad)

Cant say i'd be thrilled giving up a first for him at this stage, but would consider a 2nd and a prospect.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

He can do both -- as long as the first round picks he's dangling are the Vegas/New Jersey/Florida first rounders and not a Calgary first rounders.

A young centre like Dach would be good in the medium and long term plans, but that player isn't immediately going to pull a team out of the basement. I mean look at Montreal. They made that trade and the next year had the fifth overall pick. (They also had the fifth the following year and are workign there way towards another bottom 10 pick this year, but Dach was injured last and hasn't had a great start so far this year).

A young centre with good potential is just one part of a team.

I'd be more worried if Conroy is offering Calgary's first rounder at this point of the season for a Dach type player, as that pick could be a very high pick.

As long as those picks are top 10 protected - especially Vegas’s pick. Even then, I would rather be patient and just make the picks.

[The Fonz]

I'd be terrified of getting Dach. I don't think he reaches his potential - he's already missed too much time due to injury. I also doubt that he'll shake the injury bug at this point.

For the draft pick Montreal would be asking for him (probably something in the mid teens), I'd rather just draft the best Center available in that range.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Why? Flames won the play in round and were neck and neck with the stanley cup finalists in round one

Because it was cited as Chicago having missed the playoffs for 7 years. Chicago also won their play in round.