[Rumour] Instead of trading for right shot centres, here’s some 2025 draft ones

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Joe Thornton had already had a 100 point season, he was PPG the year before, and had 33 points in 23 games at the time of the trade. He wasn't being mishandled by the Bruins, they just lost their mind and decided to trade him. Months later Joe won the Hart Trophy with San Jose and GM O'Connell was fired.

No one is saying you can't trade for a top line center, it happens, but the best most consistant way to do that is to draft high. Draft draft draft. Why have some of you forgotten that amidst a tiny four game winning streak. Drafting and developing is the most consistant form of building a winner in this league. Teams do it other ways but not as often.

I'm not against Calgary trading for a potential top line centre if one is out there, but I don't see it, and I'd rather we stay the course on this rebuild since we're literally in the first steps of it.

This 100%.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by mdubz

He can be Their Kampf, not Mein Kampf.

How did this get zero thanks? Great stuff.

[Sandman]

To win the Stanley Cup, you need real strength down the middle- and more often than not, you need that prototypical #1 center that can play any type of game, check the other team's top centers, and handle the grind. I don't believe in tanking on purpose necessarily, but I do want to finish bottom-5 (preferably bottom-3) this season, and perhaps next, in order to secure one or two of these players. Our aim should be to compete for the cup, not compete to lose in the Division Finals.

Buffalo's rebuild didn't work because management is incompetent. They lost good players like Eichel and Reinhart, put in a never-ending carousel of bad coaches, and didn't supply enough veteran leadership to usher in their youth. Consistent goaltending would help, too.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Sandman

To win the Stanley Cup, you need real strength down the middle- and more often than not, you need that prototypical #1 center that can play any type of game, check the other team's top centers, and handle the grind. I don't believe in tanking on purpose necessarily, but I do want to finish bottom-5 (preferably bottom-3) this season, and perhaps next, in order to secure one or two of these players. Our aim should be to compete for the cup, not compete to lose in the Division Finals.

Buffalo's rebuild didn't work because management is incompetent. They lost good players like Eichel and Reinhart, put in a never-ending carousel of bad coaches, and didn't supply enough veteran leadership to usher in their youth. Consistent goaltending would help, too.

I agree in principle here. That said, the Flames have struggled to develop their top pick centers in the previous rebuild. All of Monahan(#6), Bennett(#4), and Lindholm(#5) became pretty good players, but nothing close to the level of the top 10-15 centers in the NHL.

Crosby lived with Lemieux, then took MacKinnon under his wing. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I think that the Flames need a development coach that was an elite center in the NHL. I just keep coming back to Jagr, and the influence he had in his brief stint here.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Sandman

To win the Stanley Cup, you need real strength down the middle- and more often than not, you need that prototypical #1 center that can play any type of game, check the other team's top centers, and handle the grind. I don't believe in tanking on purpose necessarily, but I do want to finish bottom-5 (preferably bottom-3) this season, and perhaps next, in order to secure one or two of these players. Our aim should be to compete for the cup, not compete to lose in the Division Finals.

Buffalo's rebuild didn't work because management is incompetent. They lost good players like Eichel and Reinhart, put in a never-ending carousel of bad coaches, and didn't supply enough veteran leadership to usher in their youth. Consistent goaltending would help, too.

They didn’t even lose Eichel. They pushed him out with idiocy.

Most were aware at the time but… what a once in a lifetime trade opportunity that was.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

They didn’t even lose Eichel. They pushed him out with idiocy.

Most were aware at the time but… what a once in a lifetime trade opportunity that was.

Another one of Tree’s “Bridesmaid not the Bride” scenarios….

[Jiri Hrdina]

No one is saying the Flames should abandon a re-build or focus on drafting and development. But if there is an opportunity to bring in a young centre, that fits within your timeline - you take a look at it. I don't see what is controversial about that.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Out of a brilliant post, the only bit I would quibble with is this:



It's pretty clear what Conroy was doing. He was accumulating a whole bunch of young(ish) defencemen, replenishing the team's depth at a position where they had just traded three of their top 5 (and then saw Kylington walk). He knew not every acquisition was going to be a success, but he threw lots of darts and scored a couple of bullseyes. Okhotiuk was that weird dart that bounces off the wire frame between numbers instead of sticking in the dartboard. I don't call that a mistake, just a low-risk gamble that didn't happen to pan out.

I totally agree with this, and I actually thought Okhotiuk had some good potential as a hard-nosed defensive defencemen that was also decent at moving the puck, though a bit raw still. I actually quite liked this deal, and felt that things just went sideways for this young defencemen in San Jose in that environment. I think it had all the foundation for a great reclamation or bounce back project for the Flames.



I just choose to mark it as a loss since he left with only a few weeks of service for the Flames, and apparently he had already decided to return to Russia during his time in San Jose before the trade was made. I would imagine that Conroy was aware of it, and perhaps gambled on being able to change Okhotiuk's mind, but since he did return, then I have to mark it as a loss. Totally understand the rational of acquiring him, but when it doesn't work out, then I have to push Okhotiuk to the 'loss' side of the 'win-lose' ledger. If he comes back after his deal is done in Russia, then maybe that chip can slide back to the win column, as I felt strongly that it was a win at the time of the trade.

[Flamesfan05]

What young potential top center is available that people are talking about

[Strange Brew]

I really think people need to lower their sights. IMO what they may be targeting is more of a Corban Knight for Drew Shore type of trade. Organizational depth and 3rd line Centre prospect potential.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I really think people need to lower their sights. IMO what they may be targeting is more of a Corban Knight for Drew Shore type of trade. Organizational depth and 3rd line Centre prospect potential.

That's how I've taken it too.

Serviceable NHLer on his second contract that can play up the middle.

Flames move out a 5th round pick and player X is inserted.

[SuperMatt18]

I wonder if a name like Kirby Dach could be of interest to the Flames.

Dach has 1 point in 6 games and is -8.

But he's an Alberta kid and has the size / pedigree the Flames would be looking for in a RH shot.

Flames have cap space to spare, and Montreal might actually be open to having that $3.5M off the books for next season.

His performance and injury issues would probably make the acquisition code more affordable.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I wonder if a name like Kirby Dach could be of interest to the Flames.

Dach has 1 point in 6 games and is -8.

But he's an Alberta kid and has the size / pedigree the Flames would be looking for in a RH shot.

Flames have cap space to spare, and Montreal might actually be open to having that $3.5M off the books for next season.

His performance and injury issues would probably make the acquisition code more affordable.

Would also fulfill our need to have a centre picked in the top 3

[DJones]

Looking at a 4-0-1 record, young players look great, young goalie looks great. Team plays with heart.

Lets blow this #### up and intentionally suck

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Buffalo's rebuild didn't work because management is incompetent. They lost good players like Eichel and Reinhart, put in a never-ending carousel of bad coaches, and didn't supply enough veteran leadership to usher in their youth. Consistent goaltending would help, too.

The funny thing (not haha funny but like, prickish smirk funny) is that both “sides” of the argument (scorched earth vs team building) point to Buffalo for these exact reasons, one side to say why Buffalo doesn’t count as an example, the other side saying they very much do count because it’s what we need to avoid.

Nobody is arguing against the fact that you’re more likely to find a star at #1 overall vs #15. Everybody knows that. But I think (most) people realize you can’t really control whether you pick #1 or say #6, so instead of obsessing over something you can’t control, you focus on what you can… which is avoiding being Buffalo.

You want competent management, good coaches, holding on to good young players, veteran leadership, and maybe even consistent goaltending? Well, it looks an awful lot like what we have.

We’re already set up to not be Buffalo, imo, which is a much bigger battle than people are giving credit for. So maybe we don’t worry if they’re looking at bringing in a young centre and hope they make their picks count, wherever they end up.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No one is saying the Flames should abandon a re-build or focus on drafting and development. But if there is an opportunity to bring in a young centre, that fits within your timeline - you take a look at it. I don't see what is controversial about that.

It’s easy to get worked up about it if you just pretend that everyone is talking about a franchise top line centre. Which no one is.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The idea that if you draft a top 5 draft pick C makes you a cup contender is laughable.

The rumor mill can say the Flames are after a good, young center all they want, but so are all the other 31 teams in the league. Unless a Lindholm/Hanifin deal falls into your lap again, you are going to have a really hard time prying these players away from anyone, and must obtain them through the draft.

Conroy has done an excellent job of amassing D depth, and has started to strengthen the wings as well after years of watching the Tre fumble the pot. If he hits a home run on a C this year, the teams rebuild could start to accelerate quickly.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I agree in principle here. That said, the Flames have struggled to develop their top pick centers in the previous rebuild. All of Monahan(#6), Bennett(#4), and Lindholm(#5) became pretty good players, but nothing close to the level of the top 10-15 centers in the NHL.

Crosby lived with Lemieux, then took MacKinnon under his wing. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I think that the Flames need a development coach that was an elite center in the NHL. I just keep coming back to Jagr, and the influence he had in his brief stint here.

Are you suggesting that one of Monahan, Bennett or Lindholm was a burgeoning prototypical, top line centre? I disagree. I think they were always what they have ended up being in their best performances—good top six centres, capable of top-line duty, but without the lethal combination of skill, speed and smarts to be dominant in that position.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Are you suggesting that one of Monahan, Bennett or Lindholm was a burgeoning prototypical, top line centre? I disagree. I think they were always what they have ended up being in their best performances—good top six centres, capable of top-line duty, but without the lethal combination of skill, speed and smarts to be dominant in that position.

I think that Monahan could've taken another step if he was forced to pay attention to the defensive side a bit more when he was starting up. Another area was carrying the puck, where he used Johnny as a bit of a crutch in transition.

As for Bennett, we'd never know, but he became a different player in FLA. One we only saw for spurts in the playoffs. I think that he had a higher potential, but being stuck on the 3rd line with Jankowski, Neal, Brouwer, etc didn't help him any.

I don't know what Lindholm could've become, but he was flip-flopped between RW and C. I doubt there was more there in terms of generating his own offense.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I think that Monahan could've taken another step if he was forced to pay attention to the defensive side a bit more when he was starting up. Another area was carrying the puck, where he used Johnny as a bit of a crutch in transition.

I just don't think Monahan was ever fast enough to control the play in a dominant fashion.

As for Bennett, we'd never know, but he became a different player in FLA. One we only saw for spurts in the playoffs. I think that he had a higher potential, but being stuck on the 3rd line with Jankowski, Neal, Brouwer, etc didn't help him any.

I think Bennett has met his potential in Florida. I continue to think that he does not process the game at a high enough level or speed to be a dominant, top-line centre.

I don't know what Lindholm could've become, but he was flip-flopped between RW and C. I doubt there was more there in terms of generating his own offense.

Lindholm actually met his potential in Calgary, and thank to Calgary. He was an effective two-zone centre with excellent defensive awareness when the Flames acquired him, and by playing with Tkachuk and Gaudreau he became a legitimate top-six, scoring centre.