2024/2025 Season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Funkhouser]

With a number of teams having their seasons derailed in net (Avalanche, Oilers, Canucks, others?), could we see Vladar becoming a valuable asset? He is a UFA next year.

What is his value? (A 2nd?)
Would the Flames be willing to trade him despite their hot start??

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

With a number of teams having their seasons derailed in net (Avalanche, Oilers, Canucks, others?), could we see Vladar becoming a valuable asset? He is a UFA next year.

What is his value? (A 2nd?)
Would the Flames be willing to trade him despite their hot start??

Possibly, although I doubt that the Flames would trade him this early in the season.

He seems to be healthy, which was what he needed to do.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That has nothing to do with what I said. I wasn't drawing any equivalency at all.

Proper development of players drafted in every round is an essential part of a strategy for success. Drafting in the top 3 is not part of any strategy, because it happens randomly and you can't simply plan to win the lottery. Even finishing last overall is very hard to do without gutting your team completely, like the '14-15 Sabres – and then the lottery can go against you, also like that team. They've never recovered from that awful tank job.

Edmonton is a prime example of a team that won the lottery but didn't develop properly. No matter how many 1OA picks they got from the Draft Fairy, it wasn't enough to make them champions.

Look at Detroit. They’ve been at/near the bottom for several years and all it’s got them is one top 5 pick, Lukas Raymond.

On the other hand teams like Dallas (Hiskanen), Carolina (Svechnikov), Edmonton (McDavid) benefited from nothing more than simple dumb luck. The lottery is nothing more than just that. Not only do you need to win the lottery, you need to win it in the right year. You could win the lottery and end up with RNH. Fine player but he’s not going to have the impact of a Bedard, Celebrini, or a McKenna.

I think Conroy’s going about this in the right way. You prioritize competitiveness and culture over a roll of the dice. He’s doing what makes sense to stock the cupboards with picks and prospects. That’s smart. If, for one reason or the other, the bottom falls out this season or next, you recognize the state of the team and maybe you do trade Rasmus Andersson and gently steer the ship towards finishing in a lower spot.

Goes without saying but the draft is also invariable and random. Some people here are saying you can’t build a winner without a top five pick. Okay, if you do a redraft of 2016, where does Tkachuk go? Pretty solid case to be made he goes second overall. How about 2011? Gaudreau looks like a top 5 pick in that draft, top 10 at least.

Every year, or at least many years, there are guys who get picked after the first 5 that in retrospect should have gone top 5. It will be interesting to see in five years or so what people think about where guys like Michkov, Demidov, and Parekh could have/should have gone.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Possibly, although I doubt that the Flames would trade him this early in the season.

He seems to be healthy, which was what he needed to do.

Little premature to be claiming teams have had their seasons derailed at this point as well. By game 10 or 12, things may look a lot different across the league.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

With a number of teams having their seasons derailed in net (Avalanche, Oilers, Canucks, others?), could we see Vladar becoming a valuable asset? He is a UFA next year.

What is his value? (A 2nd?)
Would the Flames be willing to trade him despite their hot start??

Flames have no reason to settle for a second. You want Vladar, you can pay up. We are enjoying the success.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Little premature to be claiming teams have had their seasons derailed at this point as well. By game 10 or 12, things may look a lot different across the league.

You don't need another 5-7 games to know Alexandar Georgiev isn't the answer in Colorado and they're already bleeding points because of goaltending. I know think Vladar is the answer either but he's much better than that guy.

If the Flames fall back to where some believe they "should" be I'd love a Vladar and Georgiev swap with a couple higher draft picks coming our way.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by BigThief

You don't need another 5-7 games to know Alexandar Georgiev isn't the answer in Colorado and they're already bleeding points because of goaltending. I know think Vladar is the answer either but he's much better than that guy.

If the Flames fall back to where some believe they "should" be I'd love a Vladar and Georgiev swap with a couple higher draft picks coming our way.

Hasn’t Georgiev been at the top of the league in starts over the past two years?

No question he’s struggling and it is an issue for the Avalanche but might want to consider, league wide, what the Avalanche’s options are. Minnesota has three goaltenders. Jarry’s fallen out of favour in Pittsburgh. Gibson’s name has seemingly been out there for a while. All more proven than Dan Vladar. Yes, they all have their warts but so does Vladar.

Also, what’s the bigger issue for the Avalanche? Is it goaltending, or the fact they’ve got $13M on the sidelines. Bear in mind Georgie’s has played well for them in the past. If their belief in him is gone, I would be a bit surprised they haven’t addressed it already.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Look at Detroit. They’ve been at/near the bottom for several years and all it’s got them is one top 5 pick, Lukas Raymond.

On the other hand teams like Dallas (Hiskanen), Carolina (Svechnikov), Edmonton (McDavid) benefited from nothing more than simple dumb luck. The lottery is nothing more than just that. Not only do you need to win the lottery, you need to win it in the right year. You could win the lottery and end up with RNH. Fine player but he’s not going to have the impact of a Bedard, Celebrini, or a McKenna.

I think Conroy’s going about this in the right way. You prioritize competitiveness and culture over a roll of the dice. He’s doing what makes sense to stock the cupboards with picks and prospects. That’s smart. If, for one reason or the other, the bottom falls out this season or next, you recognize the state of the team and maybe you do trade Rasmus Andersson and gently steer the ship towards finishing in a lower spot.

Goes without saying but the draft is also invariable and random. Some people here are saying you can’t build a winner without a top five pick. Okay, if you do a redraft of 2016, where does Tkachuk go? Pretty solid case to be made he goes second overall. How about 2011? Gaudreau looks like a top 5 pick in that draft, top 10 at least.

Every year, or at least many years, there are guys who get picked after the first 5 that in retrospect should have gone top 5. It will be interesting to see in five years or so what people think about where guys like Michkov, Demidov, and Parekh could have/should have gone.

The key now is sticking to a long term vision regardless of the results.

The results are a nice benefit but don't start changing the vision because if it and moving futures for win now assets or trying to accelerate your timeline.

That's what they did after 14-15.

Winning is fine as long as they don't go crazy and make a bunch of win now trades or sign over priced free agents.

[keenan87]

As it stands right now, there are too many forwards (on the pro roster + Kerins and Pelletier in the AHL)

This can be solved by trading some veterans/rentals.. or by packing up a few of these prospects for a legitimate young roster player.

[Enoch Root]

Way too early to be looking for a Vladar trade.

Keep playing him, keep developing him, and let the demand / desperation around the league grow. Also, keep developing Wolf, and if he continues to develop enough, and shows enough, then start taking calls on Vladar.

But that's 50 games away - patience is important.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Way too early to be looking for a Vladar trade.

Keep playing him, keep developing him, and let the demand / desperation around the league grow. Also, keep developing Wolf, and if he continues to develop enough, and shows enough, then start taking calls on Vladar.

But that's 50 games away - patience is important.

I agree.

I suspect the plan, although this is open to change, I’m sure, is to play Wolf Vladar as a tandem. If both play well and Cooley is playing well too, I bet the Flames look to move Vladar in large part due to his contract. They can also be patient. The longer Vladar plays well, the better.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Look at Detroit. They’ve been at/near the bottom for several years and all it’s got them is one top 5 pick, Lukas Raymond.

On the other hand teams like Dallas (Hiskanen), Carolina (Svechnikov), Edmonton (McDavid) benefited from nothing more than simple dumb luck. The lottery is nothing more than just that. Not only do you need to win the lottery, you need to win it in the right year. You could win the lottery and end up with RNH. Fine player but he’s not going to have the impact of a Bedard, Celebrini, or a McKenna.

I think Conroy’s going about this in the right way. You prioritize competitiveness and culture over a roll of the dice. He’s doing what makes sense to stock the cupboards with picks and prospects. That’s smart. If, for one reason or the other, the bottom falls out this season or next, you recognize the state of the team and maybe you do trade Rasmus Andersson and gently steer the ship towards finishing in a lower spot.

Goes without saying but the draft is also invariable and random. Some people here are saying you can’t build a winner without a top five pick. Okay, if you do a redraft of 2016, where does Tkachuk go? Pretty solid case to be made he goes second overall. How about 2011? Gaudreau looks like a top 5 pick in that draft, top 10 at least.

Every year, or at least many years, there are guys who get picked after the first 5 that in retrospect should have gone top 5. It will be interesting to see in five years or so what people think about where guys like Michkov, Demidov, and Parekh could have/should have gone.

A top 5 pick is still extremely valuable in a rebuild. Yes it’s nice for the ball to bounce your way to get 1-3, but a top 5 pick or two is a tremendous spot to be in to build out your core.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I agree.

I suspect the plan, although this is open to change, I’m sure, is to play Wolf Vladar as a tandem. If both play well and Cooley is playing well too, I bet the Flames look to move Vladar in large part due to his contract. They can also be patient. The longer Vladar plays well, the better.

Yup. Play them as a tandem for as long as possible, as you want to develop both of them. If their play dictates a change in plans, then deal with it accordingly. But unless it does, keep playing them both and see what you've got.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Flames have no reason to settle for a second. You want Vladar, you can pay up. We are enjoying the success.

Vladar has a 2.63 GAA and a .890 save percentage.

A 2nd round pick would be paying up.

But again, Calgary needs Vladar as much as any team.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Vladar has a 2.63 GAA and a .890 save percentage.

A 2nd round pick would be paying up.

But again, Calgary needs Vladar as much as any team.

Ignoring the tiny sample size, if we're going to quote stats, let's try to at least try to add a bit of analysis to the numbers.

Vladar happened to be the goalie in net when the Flames played their worst period of the season. Wasn't his fault, but even if we want to blame him for it, the fact is that he has righted the ship since then, and been pretty fantastic in net.

In the 2 2/3 games since then, he has given up just 4 goals, for a 1.48 GAA and a .931 save percentage. He is 2-0-1, all on the road.

It absolutely amazes how little rope, or respect, some Flame fans are willing to give him.

[BlueCharlton]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Look at Detroit. They’ve been at/near the bottom for several years and all it’s got them is one top 5 pick, Lukas Raymond.

On the other hand teams like Dallas (Hiskanen), Carolina (Svechnikov), Edmonton (McDavid) benefited from nothing more than simple dumb luck. The lottery is nothing more than just that. Not only do you need to win the lottery, you need to win it in the right year. You could win the lottery and end up with RNH. Fine player but he’s not going to have the impact of a Bedard, Celebrini, or a McKenna.

I think Conroy’s going about this in the right way. You prioritize competitiveness and culture over a roll of the dice. He’s doing what makes sense to stock the cupboards with picks and prospects. That’s smart. If, for one reason or the other, the bottom falls out this season or next, you recognize the state of the team and maybe you do trade Rasmus Andersson and gently steer the ship towards finishing in a lower spot.

Goes without saying but the draft is also invariable and random. Some people here are saying you can’t build a winner without a top five pick. Okay, if you do a redraft of 2016, where does Tkachuk go? Pretty solid case to be made he goes second overall. How about 2011? Gaudreau looks like a top 5 pick in that draft, top 10 at least.

Every year, or at least many years, there are guys who get picked after the first 5 that in retrospect should have gone top 5. It will be interesting to see in five years or so what people think about where guys like Michkov, Demidov, and Parekh could have/should have gone.

This is a fair point. There are a lot of "tank" rebuilding failures. It has to be done correctly and you certainly need luck as well.

That being said, the BEST odds to getting that game-breaking, young, cheap talent is in the top 5 of the draft. If this is supplemented with good vets and strong team building and ALSO drafting some talent a little bit later in the draft, then you get closer to that cup contender.

The reason people say you need a top 5 pick is because basically every single Stanley cup winner over the past 20 years and longer has at least one or more top picks, often times a top 3 pick as a major part of the core. Most of these are internally drafted, some of them are trades.

Tanking or acquiring top end talent through other means (much harder to do without seriously subtracting from your team) ultimately gives you the BEST chance (not a guaranteed chance) of having future success at winning the cup. If you do not believe me, please go through the exercise and look back at the cup winners. How many of them bottomed out at some point, versus built through middling picks in the draft?

It isn't the ONLY ingredient to creating a winning team, I agree you need a solid culture and lots of other things to get there, but without that talent I feel like its trying to make a pizza without dough.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

A top 5 pick is still extremely valuable in a rebuild. Yes it’s nice for the ball to bounce your way to get 1-3, but a top 5 pick or two is a tremendous spot to be in to build out your core.

Sure, I don’t think anyone here is saying a top 5 pick or two wouldn’t be welcome. I’m happy to take as many as we can get over the next 2 years.

That said, I don’t think it should be the goal for this organization. If it happens, awesome. Look for Ward to that player joining the team and hopefully having a long term impact.

There's one poster here who, yesterday or the day before, was absolute in his belief that the only way to build a team is by picking in the top 5, repeatedly, as part of a rebuild process. I think that’s naive and not not as simple and straightforward as that person thinks. The Flames aren’t in position to do what he believes is necessary.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by BlueCharlton

This is a fair point. There are a lot of "tank" rebuilding failures. It has to be done correctly and you certainly need luck as well.

That being said, the BEST odds to getting that game-breaking, young, cheap talent is in the top 5 of the draft. If this is supplemented with good vets and strong team building and ALSO drafting some talent a little bit later in the draft, then you get closer to that cup contender.

The reason people say you need a top 5 pick is because basically every single Stanley cup winner over the past 20 years and longer has at least one or more top picks, often times a top 3 pick as a major part of the core. Most of these are internally drafted, some of them are trades.

.

I'm not disagreeing broadly with the premise that having high picks is the best way to get elite players but the logical fallacy that continues to be made in this thread is with regards to the above. The reason for the above is primarily because MOST teams overall have top 5 picks. So the presence of them on a roster doesn't really mean anything.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by BlueCharlton

This is a fair point. There are a lot of "tank" rebuilding failures. It has to be done correctly and you certainly need luck as well.

That being said, the BEST odds to getting that game-breaking, young, cheap talent is in the top 5 of the draft. If this is supplemented with good vets and strong team building and ALSO drafting some talent a little bit later in the draft, then you get closer to that cup contender.

The reason people say you need a top 5 pick is because basically every single Stanley cup winner over the past 20 years and longer has at least one or more top picks, often times a top 3 pick as a major part of the core. Most of these are internally drafted, some of them are trades.

Tanking or acquiring top end talent through other means (much harder to do without seriously subtracting from your team) ultimately gives you the BEST chance (not a guaranteed chance) of having future success at winning the cup. If you do not believe me, please go through the exercise and look back at the cup winners. How many of them bottomed out at some point, versus built through middling picks in the draft?

It isn't the ONLY ingredient to creating a winning team, I agree you need a solid culture and lots of other things to get there, but without that talent I feel like its trying to make a pizza without dough.

Yes, I acknowledge that the best way to acquire those game breaking talents is through the draft, particularly at the top. Hard to refute that. I don’t believe it to be the only way though. It’s not written in stone.

Is it completely inconceivable that over the next 3-5 years the Flames don’t get a top 5 pick but still turn out to be a cup contender? They had just had what’s been described by those in this market and in others as one of the strongest drafts in the recent past. They’ve got, as it stands right now, two firsts this year and next. If I had to bet, they’re likely to add up that.

Would a top 5 pick be a nice add? 100% it would but that’s not in the Flames control short of completely liquidating their roster, which, I think, is an unrealistic expectation and there’s no evidence to suggest they’re about to.

[Bingo]

I think all of us think the best way to find talent is through the draft.

Some of us don't panic when they trade futures for another future.

I said it earlier ... just accumulating asset value in every way.

Trade expiring contracts and avoid signing long term deals.
Trade for packages that feel like good value (prospects you like, picks).
Draft well with the picks.
Develop the picks well.

But don't close your eye to the waiver wire (Pachal is getting better and better) or looking to acquire players from other teams that your pro scouting group thinks could pop in your system.

Don't close any doors.