2024/2025 Season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Why does a rebuild have to mean "relying on high draft picks exclusively" and "not developing properly"? That’s a false equivalency. Mismanagement and a rebuild are two entirely separate issues.

Conroy's strategy as deployed can work, it just needs a nucleus of prospects to build off of, which is where we seem to disagree. I don’t believe that consistently drafting in the late teens or twenties, hoping for the next Pastrnak or Wolf every year, is a sustainable strategy. It's a gamble, not a plan, to expect to out-draft teams and out-transaction them over the long run from that position.

Teams like Edmonton and Buffalo have been notorious for mismanaging their assets, but that doesn’t mean a rebuild is inherently flawed. Too many people write off rebuilds because of these tired examples.

Precisely my point on acquiring a young C via trade - the draft is the primary source of players, but it is not the only source, and relying entirely on it will almost certainly end in failure.

You need to draft well, of course. And you need to develop well. But you also need to make some good trades, find a key UFA here or there, and most of all, you have to hit some late-inning homers with key players from late in the draft, or undrafted, or whatever.

You need to do ALL of these things to build a winner, because it is an extremely competitive league - especially with a salary cap (and there is no single recipe for doing it).

And even with all that, you also need luck. You can do everything right, and fill your roster with good players. But they still have to have a season where most of them have good years at the same time, and where they go on a run at the right time (May/June). And you need your goalie to play well.

Saying "you can only build a cup winner by drafting top 5" is beyond naive.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Precisely my point on acquiring a young C via trade - the draft is the primary source of players, but it is not the only source, and relying entirely on it will almost certainly end in failure.

You need to draft well, of course. And you need to develop well. But you also need to make some good trades, find a key UFA here or there, and most of all, you have to hit some late-inning homers with key players from late in the draft, or undrafted, or whatever.

You need to do ALL of these things to build a winner, because it is an extremely competitive league - especially with a salary cap (and there is no single recipe for doing it).

And even with all that, you also need luck. You can do everything right, and fill your roster with good players. But they still have to have a season where most of them have good years at the same time, and where they go on a run at the right time (May/June). And you need your goalie to play well.

Saying "you can only build a cup winner by drafting top 5" is beyond naive.

The trade route is just so rare to acquire that C unless you pay out your nose. I think you almost have to draft and develop unless you have such organizational depth you can make a once in a decade trade.

To me it's more likely that you make those trades for impact wingers/D, draft and develop at C, and augment through free agency.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by TOfan

The definition of tanking is pretty loose.

The definition to me:


Deliberately making your team worse so you can draft high. Trading players you don't really have to and replacing them with players who are either rookies who aren't ready or players who aren't good enough to be playing in the roles they've been given.

He didn't have to trade Markstrom this summer but the team won't be contenders in the next two seasons and they have someone who they hope is their starter for many years waiting so it's best to give him a head start.

I don't see Conroy as ever tanking. He's got too much pride and would be thrilled if they happened to make the playoffs this season. If the team is still in the playoffs by the deadline he's not going to say "Ah ####, we're going to give our pick to Montreal. I guess I better gut the team". But I also think he's smart enough to not get stupid and start giving away draft picks like candy for rentals.

[Harry Lime]

Or trade with Buffalo. Eichel and Thompson recently and even more historically.. Philly just did it with guathier. Suzuki. Nashville doesn't know how to develop centers, they are rupe for a trade like this.

I should apologize though, no tldr s for a while there.

[bigrangy]

All I want to see going into 2027 is that the Flames have either 2 players on a HoF-lock or thereabouts trajectory or 3 players on a Hall of Very Good trajectory. For sustained success it’s not only important to have one great player, you need at least 2 or 3.

For the optimistic, Wolf and Parekh have the talent to maybe be on the Hall of Very Good path but I would still think the team needs 3 better guys than them. I like basically every other player in the org but nobody else is ever going to threaten to be a major trophy finalist, they’re the only two shots right now.

[NegativeSpace]

That is crazy high expectations. Two hall of fame players at the same time. Maybe Flames Hall of Fame but not league wide.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Precisely my point on acquiring a young C via trade - the draft is the primary source of players, but it is not the only source, and relying entirely on it will almost certainly end in failure.

You need to draft well, of course. And you need to develop well. But you also need to make some good trades, find a key UFA here or there, and most of all, you have to hit some late-inning homers with key players from late in the draft, or undrafted, or whatever.

You need to do ALL of these things to build a winner, because it is an extremely competitive league - especially with a salary cap (and there is no single recipe for doing it).

And even with all that, you also need luck. You can do everything right, and fill your roster with good players. But they still have to have a season where most of them have good years at the same time, and where they go on a run at the right time (May/June). And you need your goalie to play well.

Saying "you can only build a cup winner by drafting top 5" is beyond naive.

One other requirement of a championship run is avoiding injury to your star players.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

One other requirement of a championship run is avoiding injury to your star players.

Which is part of the 'luck' argument - it all has to go right for your team

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

The trade route is just so rare to acquire that C unless you pay out your nose. I think you almost have to draft and develop unless you have such organizational depth you can make a once in a decade trade.

To me it's more likely that you make those trades for impact wingers/D, draft and develop at C, and augment through free agency.

So is being able to pick top 3 in a year when a projected elite C is available and eventually realizes their potential.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

The trade route is just so rare to acquire that C unless you pay out your nose. I think you almost have to draft and develop unless you have such organizational depth you can make a once in a decade trade.

To me it's more likely that you make those trades for impact wingers/D, draft and develop at C, and augment through free agency.

Pro scouting and a shrewd GM play into it.

Did the Canucks think Brustewicz was a B level prospect and a player that they felt could be included in a Lindholm trade?

Did the Flames see more?

The trade if Brustewicz is just a B level guy is a lot more even. Calgary may have had a different book and will potentially grand slam the trade in time.

Every move should be made to add asset value.

Win a trade by getting a better pick than expected. Then do well with the pick. Add and add.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Precisely my point on acquiring a young C via trade - the draft is the primary source of players, but it is not the only source, and relying entirely on it will almost certainly end in failure.

You need to draft well, of course. And you need to develop well. But you also need to make some good trades, find a key UFA here or there, and most of all, you have to hit some late-inning homers with key players from late in the draft, or undrafted, or whatever.

You need to do ALL of these things to build a winner, because it is an extremely competitive league - especially with a salary cap (and there is no single recipe for doing it).

And even with all that, you also need luck. You can do everything right, and fill your roster with good players. But they still have to have a season where most of them have good years at the same time, and where they go on a run at the right time (May/June). And you need your goalie to play well.

Saying "you can only build a cup winner by drafting top 5" is beyond naive.

Well put.

Boston has been a team that has put together an exemplary organization. Dallas too. Dallas did move up several spots to draft Hieskanen but, aside from that, they haven’t needed numerous top 5 picks to become a serious cup contender.

Mentioned this earlier but I recently read Doug MacKean’s book Draft Day. He stated a team needs at least 10 home grown players to compete/win a cup. Historically, he’s pretty accurate on that.




Queue the MacLean is an idiot anyway responses. I know. We all know…

[Enoch Root]

Is the answer that a team 'needs' at least 10 home grown players to compete?

Or is it the case that the draft is the primary source of new talent, and as a result, most teams typically have at least 10 home grown players on their rosters? (and the ones that don't, are likely struggling, and so aren't likely to be contenders)

[Enoch Root]

Flames currently have 9, if my quick check was accurate

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Flames currently have 9, if my quick check was accurate

And Florida only had a few last season. (I can't remember the actual #)

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

That is crazy high expectations. Two hall of fame players at the same time. Maybe Flames Hall of Fame but not league wide.

It's not that crazy, look at teams like

Tampa who had maybe 4 guys that would be in the HOF in Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman and Vasilevski.

There's Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin and Fleury.

Coilers with the No defense wonder twins.

Bruins with Bergeron, Pasternak, and Chara.

Those are just a handful in recent memory I'm sure there's more.

3 or 4 wild, 2 is not ridiculously crazy.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

It's not that crazy, look at teams like

Tampa who had maybe 4 guys that would be in the HOF in Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman and Vasilevski.

There's Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin and Fleury.

Coilers with the No defense wonder twins.

Bruins with Bergeron, Pasternak, and Chara.

Those are just a handful in recent memory I'm sure there's more.

3 or 4 wild, 2 is not ridiculously crazy.

I was imprecise in my response. It is uncommon to have two hall of fame players or more but not impossible. My response was to the notion that the Flames need two hall of fame players - locks to be in the hall - by 2027.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Why does a rebuild have to mean "relying on high draft picks exclusively" and "not developing properly"? That’s a false equivalency. Mismanagement and a rebuild are two entirely separate issues.

That has nothing to do with what I said. I wasn't drawing any equivalency at all.

Proper development of players drafted in every round is an essential part of a strategy for success. Drafting in the top 3 is not part of any strategy, because it happens randomly and you can't simply plan to win the lottery. Even finishing last overall is very hard to do without gutting your team completely, like the '14-15 Sabres – and then the lottery can go against you, also like that team. They've never recovered from that awful tank job.

Edmonton is a prime example of a team that won the lottery but didn't develop properly. No matter how many 1OA picks they got from the Draft Fairy, it wasn't enough to make them champions.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by D as in David

And Florida only had a few last season. (I can't remember the actual #)

Florida plays under different rules entirely due to the attractiveness of the market, tax implications, etc. The Flames can’t play that game unfortunately.

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Florida plays under different rules entirely due to the attractiveness of the market, tax implications, etc. The Flames can’t play that game unfortunately.

They also have terrifying hurricanes. I think that event things out a bit.

[robertsfanatic]

trade rumours and speculation, not how to build a championship team thread...come on guys, start another thread.