Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Azure

I mean does this make sense to anyone?



https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/billio...pact-1.7075470

Don't cry over spilled milk

[Azure]

I mean if you think about it because the supply management system is federally mandated, what is stopping the federal government from forcing the dairy farms to setup a process where a huge portion of that milk gets directly donated to food organizations week per week?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

I mean does this make sense to anyone?



https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/billio...pact-1.7075470

You’re right, it makes little sense to write articles claiming numbers are bad with little to no actual comparisons. Even in the source data linked in the article they state that milk dumping isn’t unique to Canada and that there is very little data available from other countries for comparison. Keep allowing yourself to be so easily outraged by the media though, they love and are relying on them clicks!

Also, the dairy industry already does donate a lot of milk to food banks and other such organizations.

[Monahammer]

I support Azure's point here, we should not be wasting anything. We are having a food crisis right now with many food banks across the country depleted and handling more requests than ever before. We shouldn't be throwing away a drop of milk until there's 0 families in Canada going without food.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

You’re right, it makes little sense to write articles claiming numbers are bad with little to no actual comparisons. Even in the source data linked in the article they state that milk dumping isn’t unique to Canada and that there is very little data available from other countries for comparison. Keep allowing yourself to be so easily outraged by the media though, they love and are relying on them clicks!

Also, the dairy industry already does donate a lot of milk to food banks and other such organizations.

Typical dense response.

So you're saying that the article is wrong and we haven't asked literally wasted billions of dollars worth of milk the past decade?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I support Azure's point here, we should not be wasting anything. We are having a food crisis right now with many food banks across the country depleted and handling more requests than ever before. We shouldn't be throwing away a drop of milk until there's 0 families in Canada going without food.

Yeah fair enough, I agree with your overall point that we shouldn’t be wasting food but there’s zero context provided as to how much more milk is currently needed vs how much of the disposed milk could have actually been sent to food banks. The last thing we need to be doing is sending expired or poor quality milk to food banks. I also think a lot of people underestimate or are oblivious to how much waste there is in the food industry as a whole. The tax implications between donations and writing off losses probably plays a role in why producers are dumping rather than donating as well.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Yeah fair enough, I agree with your overall point that we shouldn’t be wasting food but there’s zero context provided as to how much more milk is currently needed vs how much of the disposed milk could have actually been sent to food banks. The last thing we need to be doing is sending expired or poor quality milk to food banks. I also think a lot of people underestimate or are oblivious to how much waste there is in the food industry as a whole. The tax implications between donations and writing off losses probably plays a role in why producers are dumping rather than donating as well.

Producers are dumping because of the quotas/supply management in order to artificially keep prices high.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I support Azure's point here, we should not be wasting anything. We are having a food crisis right now with many food banks across the country depleted and handling more requests than ever before. We shouldn't be throwing away a drop of milk until there's 0 families in Canada going without food.

One thing to remember in this discussion is that a farmer isn't just giving out milk straight from the cow. That milk has to be processed and packaged, which of course comes at a price.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Producers are dumping because of the quotas/supply management in order to artificially keep prices high.

How would not dumping it lower the price you pay at the grocery store?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

How would not dumping it lower the price you pay at the grocery store?

Isn't that how the law of supply and demand works? Put simply, less product on the market = higher price, more product on the market = lower price.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Isn't that how the law of supply and demand works? Put simply, less product on the market = higher price, more product on the market = lower price.

It falls apart when the distribution and retail methods are controlled by a very small group.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Isn't that how the law of supply and demand works? Put simply, less product on the market = higher price, more product on the market = lower price.

Sure if you believe in fairytales.

The way capitalism works is that you try and make as much money selling a product as you can. If the market price for milk is already established at say $4/jug and people are paying it there’s no business argument for any vendors to sell it for less than that because supply has increased. They’re not running these businesses out of benevolence, their goal is to maximize their profits.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by GGG

When and why did you vote for Trudeau if you’re willing to share? I can’t see you voting him in over Harper’s last term. Sheer? Why would he be different than PP? Otoole was reasonable option and by then Trudeau was getting stinky but the PC Covid stuff was garbage. Did you vote Trudeau for this term because of Covid?

Voted for Trudeau / Kent Hehr in 2015 because I thought the Conservative government was long in the tooth and got very complacent in their last term. Trudeau seemed like a breath of fresh air and maybe the Liberals had learned a bit I decided to give them my vote that time. Traditionally, my views mostly would overlap between Liberals and Conservatives who usually had several very similar policies.

On a side note (not meaning you as it seems like a genuine question), it was quite hilarious to see some of the most rabidly partisan left posters on the forum piling on in a row to reject that someone could vote in a non partisan way (while claiming everyone not conforming to their views and not voting like them to be the "feckless bunch").

[Azure]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Sure if you believe in fairytales.

The way capitalism works is that you try and make as much money selling a product as you can. If the market price for milk is already established at say $4/jug and people are paying it there’s no business argument for any vendors to sell it for less than that because supply has increased. They’re not running these businesses out of benevolence, their goal is to maximize their profits.

How is the price of milk set in Canada and who dictates how much is supplied?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

How is the price of milk set in Canada and who dictates how much is supplied?

Do you mean the wholesale price or retail?

The wholesale side is irrelevant to what people are actively willingly paying for milk at the grocery store, there are no cost controls on retail milk prices.

If people have already proven that they’re willing to pay the current price, what incentive would retailers have to lower the price if they get it cheaper from wholesalers? The answer is none.

People really like to rag on supply management because they have been lead to believe that getting rid of it is going to magically lower the prices they pay at the till. Yet their arguments for why they believe that are generally theoretical things like supply and demand, which are only about as universally proven as trickle down economics.

Supply management isn’t perfect but deluding ourselves about it isn’t going to be beneficial.

[GGG]

Milk has an expiration date. If you increase the supply of milk beyond the consumption of milk the price will fall as milk approaches its expiration date.

So the wholesale price of milk drops, then the grocer has milk they can buy cheap and if they can get rid of it in time make a profit. The consumer given a choice between expiring milk and new milk will buy new milk so the price on older milk is discounted to incentivize buying before it expires.

So yes rather than have an expired product the retailer will lower their prices. Like right now you can get egg nog half price at sobeys because it expires this week.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

Milk has an expiration date. If you increase the supply of milk beyond the consumption of milk the price will fall as milk approaches its expiration date.

So the wholesale price of milk drops, then the grocer has milk they can buy cheap and if they can get rid of it in time make a profit. The consumer given a choice between expiring milk and new milk will buy new milk so the price on older milk is discounted to incentivize buying before it expires.

So yes rather than have an expired product the retailer will lower their prices. Like right now you can get egg nog half price at sobeys because it expires this week.

I think we’re comparing apples to oranges a little here. Of course a product that is about to expire is going to be marked down by the retailer, this is true of almost all perishable and seasonal products.

[opendoor]

The whole underpinning of that study seems a bit specious to me. If I'm reading it correctly, they've taken the theoretical production per cow in a year and multiplied that by the number of cows in the country. Then they've deducted the reported amount of milk sold in a year and assumed that the entire difference between those two numbers was farmers dumping milk on their farm, with no corroboration of any kind.

But they're don't actually know how much milk was produced, it's just a rough estimate. Whereas the government does release milk production numbers which are pretty different from what these researchers are estimating. And it's worth noting that the government figures do show some wastage when compared against sales figures, but nothing close to what this study is suggesting.

[Fuzz]

So wait, the study didn't actually use real numbers, they just mathed out theoretical ones? That...doesn't' really prove anything at all.

[curves2000]

People who really defend our level of supply management in Canada just don't appreciate really good food and like the pain of being royally screwed in the a**. There is no justification for it to the degree we have in Canada. Our dairy products are garbage, our prices are high, our quality is low and the level of import duties and limitations on the real good stuff is sky high. Nobody really wins except the people at the top.

The bastardization of things like Greek yogurt in it's current Canadian form, people who think Kraft parmesan is cheese when in reality it's sawdust. Canadian's who don't understand or appreciate how tasty rooster can be, why? Cause in Canada we cull male chickens effectively right away for the trash after we select them as male as they offer nothing other than meat to the dairy/egg industry.

When you make billions in profits feeding Canadian's the garbage and limiting their options for the real beautiful things in life, then your going to protect it. I get there is a business case and a political case for some protection but come on. Life is too short for this BS when it comes to the good things.

Enjoy real good quality eggs that don't need to be refrigerated and come talk to me about supply management. People claiming they "love Greek salads" who have never really had authentic Greek feta cheese. People paying $20 for nachos which are fried chips with 3 oz's of a processed product called cheese. The fact that Canada does not recognize European Protected Designation of Origin for it's products shows how little regard for Canadian's food choices our people in power allow. Brutal