Justice for an idiot driver

[lifer]

Originally Posted by Burninator

lifer. Let's simplify this.

If I am travelling 100kph and you are travelling 200kph on the same road. By your logic you are safer, because you will be on the road for less time, in fact half the time as me. Come on, you don't actually think that do you? You are looking at this with way too small of a perspective.



Your hockey example doesn't work. Because in every driving example the cars are going the same distance (length of hockey game) and the variable is the time travelled (you would have to change the speed at which the tape of the hockey game was playing). In fact you have just used your own logic against yourself. What you are saying is that the slow driver is the person watching the game for 10 minutes and the fast driver is the person watching the same 10 minute game but sped up into 9 minutes. So who is more likely to see a goal scored (get into an accident)? The person watching the game at normal speed (100kph driver) or the person watching the game at 1.1 times faster (110kph)? Logic would dictate the slower person is more likely to see a goal scored, and the slower driver is more likely to avoid an accident.

To your first point, these is a big difference between the example of going 110 vs 100km/h that I am basing it on and the 200 vs 100km/h that you are using. Nobody is safe driving 200km/h on a public road.

the hockey example was not referring to chances of being in a crash, but chances of seeing a deer. It is exactly the same as the hockey example. It is based on the frequency of an event. If there are 5 goals per game in a hockey game (or 3 deer per 10 km stretch of road) you are more likely to see a goal if you watch the game for longer (you are more likely to see a deer if you are on that road longer). Look at it this way, if 100 deer cross the road in a day, and I'm driving for 9 hours but you're driving for 10, you shoudl see more deer than me. I'm not saying anything about accidents here, just the likelyhood of seeing a deer.

[Drunk Skunk]

The story at the start of this thread reminded me of a funny one of my own. I was driving back from a hockey road trip, and it was about midnight. I'm not exactly a slow driver, and was going in the low 80mph range. All of a sudden, this little black two seater flies past me, weaving past me and about clipping the rental car. I said to the only other person awake at the time that it would be hilarious if there was an officer in the road further up. Sure enough, about 10 miles down the road, there was car on the shoulder with a couple of cop cars behind him. The kicker is that one guy was laying, face down, on the ground behind the car, and the other had his hands on the hood. I laughed and went on my happy way.

[Flames0910]

the faster driver will see less deer, but has a higher chance of being involved in a collision with the deer he does come across
the slower driver will see more deer, but is more likely to stop in time

[rockstar]

This is quite the debate since I last checked in. Really interesting stuff.

I just wanted to say that I just had another experience with an asshat on the road, not twenty minutes ago. Driving down 17th ave. from 69th St. (West Side Rec Centre) toward Sarcee trail, and Mr. Asshat in his red Honda Civic comes shooting out of one of the neighborhoods onto 17th, and proceeds to gun in down the road (moderate amounts of traffic), going about 110/120kph in a 60 zone. This is about 100 feet in front of me at the time of his entrance onto 17th ave.

So, I watch as Asshat weaves in and out of traffic (very very aggressively, I might add; looked a few times like his precious Civic was going to go up on two wheels) all the way down the street. I say to myself as he gets further and further away, "Let's see how far this bag of ###### actually gets."

Naturally, about 20 seconds later I pull up right behind him at a traffic light. Didn't get too far, did he? Light goes green, and each lane is occupied by a relatively slow driver (going, let's say, the speed limit) in front of Mr. Asshat (who, for the sake of stereotype-reinforcement, was no older than 18).

Asshat proceeds to tailgate BIG TIME on the guy in the left lane, swerving to change lanes only to realize the other car was there, and barely avoiding an accident.

At this time, I'm pissed right off at this guy's stupidity, and I do something a little unsafe: the classic move of driving right beside him so he can't get out of the slow guy's lane (the other slow guy had since sped up and gone ahead). I then proceeded to roll down my window and yell, "Get a ****ing clue, ASSHAT!" (Clearly inspired by reading the beginnings of this thread earlier today).

######-bag (as he is also known) eventually broke free of the enclosure, cut me off, and sped on through.

But not before taking a good 5 second licking from my horn.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by rockstar

This is quite the debate since I last checked in. Really interesting stuff.

I just wanted to say that I just had another experience with an asshat on the road, not twenty minutes ago. Driving down 17th ave. from 69th St. (West Side Rec Centre) toward Sarcee trail, and Mr. Asshat in his red Honda Civic comes shooting out of one of the neighborhoods onto 17th, and proceeds to gun in down the road (moderate amounts of traffic), going about 110/120kph in a 60 zone. This is about 100 feet in front of me at the time of his entrance onto 17th ave.

So, I watch as Asshat weaves in and out of traffic (very very aggressively, I might add; looked a few times like his precious Civic was going to go up on two wheels) all the way down the street. I say to myself as he gets further and further away, "Let's see how far this bag of ###### actually gets."

Naturally, about 20 seconds later I pull up right behind him at a traffic light. Didn't get too far, did he? Light goes green, and each lane is occupied by a relatively slow driver (going, let's say, the speed limit) in front of Mr. Asshat (who, for the sake of stereotype-reinforcement, was no older than 18).

Asshat proceeds to tailgate BIG TIME on the guy in the left lane, swerving to change lanes only to realize the other car was there, and barely avoiding an accident.

At this time, I'm pissed right off at this guy's stupidity, and I do something a little unsafe: the classic move of driving right beside him so he can't get out of the slow guy's lane (the other slow guy had since sped up and gone ahead). I then proceeded to roll down my window and yell, "Get a ****ing clue, ASSHAT!" (Clearly inspired by reading the beginnings of this thread earlier today).

######-bag (as he is also known) eventually broke free of the enclosure, cut me off, and sped on through.

But not before taking a good 5 second licking from my horn.

Pretty typical.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Jagger

And yet you still speed and are, seemingly, proud of the fact. If you speed like you say you do then you have just been lucky to not get a ticket at least. You will get tagged eventually.

I'm not actually just having a go at you. I also don't like the 'slow' drivers which, I agree, are a hazard too. I drive close to the speed limit (5kph) or so, not exactly a slow driver, and speeders who weave in and out of traffic, with no indication, and seemingly no respect for their fellow drivers drive me nuts. I've had way too many close calls with these types. If you're not like that, great. Good luck to you and drive safe.

First of all, I'd just like to say my first post was poorly articulated. Was in the middle of work but felt strongly about this issue =)

The bolded part shows that you automatically assume speeders are the only ones that weave in and out of traffic. You know, speeders that weave pose zero threat to you. Because the second they cut you off, they're already going faster than you so you wouldn't have to brake even. However, a driver that was going 10km/h slower than you that weaves in and out of traffic...now that's fun.

Much of this weaving happens in traffic that's going extremely slow (see rockstar's example on 17th ave). They are not speeding, but they are being dangerous. On a smooth flowing deerfoot road, someone doing 120 passing you doing 100 poses almost no danger.

This is to further reinforce the point earlier that excessive speed and safety are separable. Speed is only one of many variables in accidents.

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by Regorium

The bolded part shows that you automatically assume speeders are the only ones that weave in and out of traffic.

No, actually I don't think that but thanks for the assumption. There are many many other examples of poor driving techniques and habits than speed. Speed just happens to be the one we were discussing here. There are plenty of bad drivers out there that are not necessarily speed demons. Perhaps I should have said tailgating rather than weaving. That's what really gets to me if truth be told. I actually find this pretty laughable the number of people saying that speeding is actually safer. Heaven help us.

BTW, just so you know I only consider myself an average driver who could certainly improve. I have some bad habits that I really do need to correct. I wonder how many people here consider themselves excellent drivers, regardless whether they excessively speed or not.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Jagger

I actually find this pretty laughable the number of people saying that speeding is actually safer. Heaven help us.

Where are the number of people saying that speeding is actually safer?

People are arguing that keeping up with traffic is safer and if this involves speeding than so be it. Having taken defensive driving courses myslef I don't see how you can argue that this is wrong, unless the speeds were excessive and I don't see 110-120 on Deerfoot as excessive.

People also have said that in relation to really slow drivers that perhaps speeding, again not excessively, is safer or at least as safe. I would argue that going 20 over or under the speed limit or flow of traffic are equally unsafe.

I find only one poster that seems to be advocating the position that speeding is safer. At that argument obviously holds little water.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by moon

I find only one poster that seems to be advocating the position that speeding is safer. At that argument obviously holds little water.

I hope that's not me. I say that speeding is safer for me. In most cases. Due to other traffic on the road, and my driving style at least. To each their own, but I would rather be going faster than slower.

And in case Jagger reads this- I am not particularily proud of speeding, because everyone does it. I am not talking about anything more than 20 over, which I think is what almost everyone does anyway (at night). But i am also not ashamed of driving fast, that's just what happens.

[moon]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

I hope that's not me. I say that speeding is safer for me. In most cases. Due to other traffic on the road, and my driving style at least. To each their own, but I would rather be going faster than slower.

No. I was talking about lifer and his you are on the road for a shorter period of time theory.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Jagger

Under any scenario that has been mentioned here the speeder is the most dangerous person in that situation period. I've taken numerous defensive driving courses with relation to my job and speed really does kill. There are no excuses for it and, to be perfectly honest, some of the comments here are downright scary if not altogether unexpected given what I see out there.

Cube Inmate has made, without doubt, the most sensible comments I've read on this thread.

No way can you say that either one is more dangerous than the other one in that situation. Both are hazards and both are dangerous to other drivers.

This whole you can see one but no the other because one is in front and the other is behind is BS as well. It is easy to not notice both depending on the road and situation.

Cube Inmate has made the most comments that are in line with your speed is the devil thinking not the most sensible comments.

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by moon

I would argue that going 20 over or under the speed limit or flow of traffic are equally unsafe.

And I would certainly agree with that. As I said there are plenty of bad driving habits than speeding. How many people have cut in front of you while talking on their cell? How many of you are pedestrians that have almost been run over while crossing at a crosswalk? There's plenty of bone headed moves out there. Take your pick.

It did seem to me that there were a few people here stating that speeding was actually safer than driving at slower speeds. Perhaps I was mistaken.

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by moon

Cube Inmate has made the most comments that are in line with your speed is the devil thinking not the most sensible comments.

Now I'm a religious nut! Nice! Yes I do believe that CI comment's were the most sensible. Speeding is dangerous. That's not something that is unique to my thinking. It's a proven fact. Do I speed from time to time? Yes I do, especially on Hwy 2 when the traffic is light. I catch myself though and let off the gas. I've had first hand experience that speed does indeed kill but, heck, what do I know?

Like I said, I see unbelievably stupid driving on the roads of Alberta. It's not likely to change much and people are still going to be killed. It's my opinion, and numerous official stances, that people need to slow down and pay more attention on the roads. My opinion is not going to change as I really do believe it's the correct one.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Jagger

Now I'm a religious nut! Nice! Yes I do believe that CI comment's were the most sensible. Speeding is dangerous. That's not something that is unique to my thinking. It's a proven fact. Do I speed from time to time? Yes I do, especially on Hwy 2 when the traffic is light. I catch myself though and let off the gas. I've had first hand experience that speed does indeed kill but, heck, what do I know?

Like I said, I see unbelievably stupid driving on the roads of Alberta. It's not likely to change much and people are still going to be killed. It's my opinion, and numerous official stances, that people need to slow down and pay more attention on the roads. My opinion is not going to change as I really do believe it's the correct one.

It was an expression not meant to be an actual reference to the real devil or religion.

The reason I didn't like CI comments is that they seemed to marginalise the danger that people driving way too slow pose to other drivers.

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by moon

The reason I didn't like CI comments is that they seemed to marginalise the danger that people driving way too slow pose to other drivers.

Like I've said i completely agree with you on that. Slow drivers are extremely dangerous hazards too. Of that there's no doubt. His comments about speed though in general seemed spot on to me.

[Human Torch]

After a Rolling Stones concert in Regina during Thanksgiving weekend we were driving back to Calgary. I was going 120 on the left side when a car starts to come up behind me quickly. I start going 130 yet he keeps on pushing. He clearly wants to pass me but there's a row of cars to the right. I end up having to speed up even more to get to the front of the row in order to merge. We start going up a hill and I have my signal light on in advance to tell him that I'm gonna get out of the way as soon as I can. Near the top I'm finally able to merge. The guy goes speeding past me right away, straight down the hill and into a highway patrol check. He's waved down and I slow down as well but the cops just wave me away. Before the highway patrol I was pretty pissed at the guy but in the end he saved me from getting a ticket. Thank you mystery man!

[jolinar of malkshor]

I was driving from Strathmore to Calgary last year on number 1. I was doing about 115 in the left lane. I was approaching another vehicle that was driving slower in the right lane when I noticed in my mirror a 3/4 ton truck flying up in the right hand lane. I am thinking to my self, this guy isnt going to try and squeeze between me and the car in the right hand land. There was basically 1 cars length of room to squeeze through and I was closing the gap. Sure enough this dick head cuts right in barely hitting my truck. I was pissed...normally I dont care to much if people are driving fast on the highway but when they put other people in danger I wont tolerate it. Any how, I wanted to catch up to the truck to get his plate number but he was driving way to fast. I would have had to be going like 200 k to catch him. So I thought what the hell, I am going to call the RCMP and see if they are interested in this dick. I call up dispatch and tell them what had happened and which way the vehicle is going. Dispatch takes the info (they are in Red Deer) and says thanks. Naturally I am thinking, they could care less. About 1 minute later I get a call on my cell and it is the local sergent wanting to know where this guy was heading. So I tell him, he thanks me and I hang up. 2 mins later a cop comes flyin up heading toward calgary after the guy. They happened to catch him at the first set of lights in Calgary. I pulled over and went to talk to the police officer to inform him of what I saw and he says, no worries, I am giving him 3 tickets just for what I saw him do. So as I drive away I get the bird from buddy in his truck.

Deserves him right

[browna]

Best example I have is last summer, some punk with BC plates flying down 9th Ave, in some POS car with some chick in his car. Ducking in and out of lanes erraticly and sharply, and riding (I mean feet, not meters) peoples ass for a few blocks. I saw him do this in the mirror, only a matter of time before he was around me.

Turned south on MacLeod, same thing as I saw him now ahead of me, as traffic was heavier he couldn't manuever so quickly, so it was riding asses until he had a few feet clearance to change lanes and cut the other lane off, a lot more dangerously even then his driving on 9th...the skank gf giving the finger out the window to everyone who they passed/cutoff. Just about at the Arby's at 12th Ave, a polic van goes screaming past and gets the dink a few blocks later....more then a few fingers were thrown out the window by passing cars at this guy.

[lifer]

Originally Posted by moon

No. I was talking about lifer and his you are on the road for a shorter period of time theory.

ohhh the argument that I said wasn't a very good one the first time I posted it? Other than that the argument has been strictly a technical one where I have had trouble convincing peopel that a driver who is not on the road poses no danger to anybody. Does that logic trouble you?

Hell, I even said this: driving faster is relatively more dangerous than driving slower,
I was just pointing out that speed isn't the only variable here and anybody with deep thinking ability will see that. I have posted an article on reaction time (people were concered about the young asshats reaction time), and brought up variable such as age and type of car for people to consider. Nowhere did I say that driving faster was safer. Specifically I responded about hitting deer, and said the less time you spend on the road, the less deer you will see. That is simply true. I have also said the less time you spend driving the less chance you have of being hit by dangerous drivers, which is also true.

[MacDougalbry]

Originally Posted by browna

Best example I have is last summer, some punk with BC plates flying down 9th Ave, in some POS car with some chick in his car. Ducking in and out of lanes erraticly and sharply, and riding (I mean feet, not meters) peoples ass for a few blocks. ...

Funny how the people whose presence is least needed anywhere are always in the biggest hurry to get there. I'll tell you another thing, it's a much bigger deal if mom in her minivan (the arch enemy of the bob and weave driver) shows up late at the daycare than if buddy shows up late for happy hour at the strip club.