BC Lags Behind Other Provinces in Life Satisfaction

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If you want to get into the politics of the Weimar Republic, this probably isn’t the thread for it. But here goes: Conservative elites caved to the Nazis, while liberal elites didn’t. The moderate Centre Party, under Papen, was divided over the Enabling Act. But they eventually acquiesced after a campaign of Nazi intimidation against their mostly Catholic support base.

Why do you struggle with giving a straight answer? I know you struggle with Nazi-adjacent topics, but I have no idea why.

Rube criticized elites that enabled Nazism.
You rejected that criticism as the “relentless drumbeat against elites that the left indulges (which) feeds populism.”

I think most people, who aren’t Nazis, would think, “the people who helped put the Nazis in power on purpose? Yeah, fair game for critique.”

So are you saying that criticising the elites that enabled Nazism because they thought they could crush the leftists while controlling Hitler is wrong or is it actually OK, in this scenario, to criticize this specific brand of elites?

If it’s wrong… Please explain. And then explain why you struggle with criticising people who are friendly to Nazism. Because that’s super messed up.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

And that is a good verification of the fact that Conservative voters tend to be less educated. Nothing like willful ignorance to enforce your views. Smrt.

For what it’s worth I’ve seen him try to understand posts he’s actually read and it’s a pretty awkward thing to witness. You’re not missing much.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Moderate centrist parties are in a political struggle against the populist far right in which of the following countries:

A) France
B) Poland
C) the USA
D) none of the above
E) all of the above

I can play this game, too. Moderate centrists in the following countries are currently supporting an ethnofascist regime commiting genocide and war crimes...

A) France
B) Poland
C) the USA
D) none of the above
E) all of the above

[rubecube]

Also, imagine looking back at the actions of Western liberal countries in terms of foreign policy over the last 70+ years, the domestic policies that have ushered in a new gilded age, and proudly proclaiming "the good guys won."

EDIT: Obviously I'm not saying the Nazis or the Soviets were good or better. It's just a profoundly tone-deaf thing to say.

[CliffFletcher]

Kurzgesagt’s latest video is aimed at terminally miserable people like rube and fuzz.

Spoiler!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I can play this game, too. Moderate centrists in the following countries are currently supporting an ethnofascist regime commiting genocide and war crimes...

A) France
B) Poland
C) the USA
D) none of the above
E) all of the above

This is one of the most hilarious cases of deflection I’ve seen here in a long time.

You: Centrist liberals typically side with the far right.

Me: Here are three prominent, recent examples of centrist liberals in major countries taking on the populist right in elections and winning.

You: But Gaza!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This is one of the most hilarious cases of deflection I’ve seen here in a long time.

It’s almost as funny as the time someone purposefully deflected criticism of elites who enabled and encouraged the rise of Nazism.

[opendoor]

I’m still struggling to understand why listing countries where neoliberal politicians are trying (and largely failing) to counter right wing extremism by shifting to the right is supposed to be a compliment to them. Isn’t the rise of right wing extremism obviously a demonstration of their failure to lead and address working class concerns when they’re in power? Well run countries don’t tend to have ascendant movements that want to blow things up.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Kurzgesagt’s latest video is aimed at terminally miserable people like rube and fuzz.

So you're done acting like you're above giving petty little shots now, right?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by BigThief

So you're done acting like you're above giving petty little shots now, right?

Yep.

Which previously banned poster are you again? Imagine defying the very light moderation on this forum so many times that you’re banned, and then creating an alt to slink back in.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yep.

Which previously banned poster are you again? Imagine defying the very light moderation on this forum so many times that you’re banned, and then creating an alt to slink back in.

It's the former president.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I’m still struggling to understand why listing countries where neoliberal politicians are trying (and largely failing) to counter right wing extremism by shifting to the right is supposed to be a compliment to them. Isn’t the rise of right wing extremism obviously a demonstration of their failure to lead and address working class concerns when they’re in power? Well run countries don’t tend to have ascendant movements that want to blow things up.

Each of the parties I cited won their most recent elections. That counts as victory in my eyes (if not in the eyes of people like rube who think politics isn’t about winning elections). You don’t think there’s a big difference between what Tusk, Biden, and Macron are offering and the parties who they beat?

But I was really just challenging rube’s assertion that centrist liberals habitually side with the far right. That’s clearly not the case.

The core issue is aging populations leading to slowing economies and growing unfunded pension and health care liabilities. One obvious measure is large-scale immigration, but it turns out voters really hate that.

The fact no aging, high-income country under any government has figured out a solution yet suggests it’s an incredibly difficult and complex problem.

Macron sees France’s awful public finance balance sheet, and sensibly tries to raise the retirement age from 62 to 64. Riots ensue and his government plummets in the polls.

So what’s your plan? And not as a technocratic policy wonk, but as a politician - someone who wants to get (re)elected.

It’s also worth asking why the populist right are reaping the benefits of working-class discontent, moreso than the left.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It’s also worth asking why the populist right are reaping the benefits of working-class discontent, moreso than the left.

Probably doesn’t help when there are plenty of “centrist liberals” who spend the majority of their time complaining about leftists and demonizing left wing policies while downplaying the danger of and making concessions to the far right.

I hear some of them are so obsessed with taking shots at the left that they’ll actually defend Nazis to do it. But most of those guys are gutless weirdos.

[rubecube]

Centrist parties winning by moving to the right and adopting the policies of the extreme right, and in the process pushing the Overton window even further right, isn't the own you think it is, Cliff.

You're essentially making my point for me.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Have the Democratics moved more right?
They're running a black female for president; on a campaign largely focused on female reproductive rights, Healthcare for all and unity through diversity.

Supporting Israel and US policy around the Middle East has always been questionable, that's no new shift.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Have the Democratics moved more right?
They're running a black female for president; on a campaign largely focused on female reproductive rights, Healthcare for all and unity through diversity.

Supporting Israel and US policy around the Middle East has always been questionable, that's no new shift.

She is not running on health care for all. They have moved significantly right on immigration.

"Unity through diversity" is aesthetic liberalism at its finest.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Probably doesn’t help when there are plenty of “centrist liberals” who spend the majority of their time complaining about leftists and demonizing left wing policies while downplaying the danger of and making concessions to the far right.

Can't possibly be because liberals, in their quest to defeat the left, happily went along with red scare tactics and crushing labour movements.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by rubecube

She is not running on health care for all. They have moved significantly right on immigration.

"Unity through diversity" is aesthetic liberalism at its finest.

"Health Care is a right" is literally in the first sentence of the party website and their stance.
https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/

Dismissing unity as aesthetic liberalism is irrelevant to point you claimed where they've moved further right.
It would be aesthetic under past Democrats too in that case.

Try again?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

"Health Care is a right" is literally in the first sentence of the party website and their stance.
https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/

Health care is a right /= health care for all.

Dismissing unity as aesthetic liberalism is irrelevant to point you claimed where they've moved further right.
It would be aesthetic under past Democrats too in that case.

Try again?

That was the thesis of my big post though. Liberals will only allow for aesthetic changes, which is an inherently reactionary position.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Health care is a right /= health care for all.



That was the thesis of my big post though. Liberals will only allow for aesthetic changes, which is an inherently reactionary position.

Your words were "Centrist parties winning by moving to the right and adopting the policies of the extreme right".

If the policies the Democrats are portraying are not moving to the right, even if they are just aesthetic, they haven't moved to the far right to win voters.
Unless they're playing some crazy 4D chess by portraying liberal/left values like diversity & health care, nominating a black woman and somehow that is actually luring right wing voters in so they can win

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Your words were "Centrist parties winning by moving to the right and adopting the policies of the extreme right".

They have moved hard right on immigration and foreign policy. They're literally trotting out Dick Cheney as an ally.

Nominating a woman of colour isn't indicative of a shift left. It's keeping in pattern of making aesthetic and not substantive changes.

This comic kind of nails it.

https://ayeshaasiddiqi.substack.com/...op-drone-comic