MF YYC Politics - there, I mega did it

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Too much news today, make it stop!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1844443869532041665

Whatever that means.

[TorqueDog]

It better not be at-grade. We need less at-grade train infrastructure, not more.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

It better not be at-grade. We need less at-grade train infrastructure, not more.

I would certainly hope that they would follow the city's finalized path, which only has at grade crossings of roads on very minor roadways. Where they put the 4th street station would be the main worry about that - at grade or underground.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I would certainly hope that they would follow the city's finalized path, which only has at grade crossings of roads on very minor roadways. Where they put the 4th street station would be the main worry about that - at grade or underground.

Don't think that matters too much since 4th street was at grade in the most recent city alignment.

After 4th street is all of the concern currently.

[Fuzz]

"We've decided to build the easy cheap bit, so we can flaunt that by the next election."

[Muta]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

It better not be at-grade. We need less at-grade train infrastructure, not more.

Wouldn't bat an eyelash at the UCP telling (suspiciously-hired without an RFP process) AECOM that 'at-grade is the only option' wink wink nudge nudge

[Looch City]

Knew it, brilliant move by Danny and co. I know who I'll be voting for next! Amazing accomplishment by the UCP.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

"We've decided to build the easy cheap bit, so we can flaunt that by the next election."

Or easy and cheap because that gets the most ridership the fastest.

If they build up nose creek they can #### off but at grade crossings aren’t a terrible choice vs shortening the line.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

"We've decided to build the easy cheap bit, so we can flaunt that by the next election."

Which no one will use. Other than for Flames games and concerts/Stampede, who is trying to get 4th SE as their final destination?

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Knew it, brilliant move by Danny and co. I know who I'll be voting for next! Amazing accomplishment by the UCP.

I don't really know who this is for, from the UCP perspective.

The UCP's base will hate this because they hate transit, but will also never vote for anyone other than the UCP so it's moot.

People who are pro-transit will still see this as negative because they've still f-cked up the project and won't be swayed.

I don't know what fence-sitters exist that are able to be swayed by investment in public transit alone.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I don't really know who this is for, from the UCP perspective.

The UCP's base will hate this because they hate transit, but will also never vote for anyone other than the UCP so it's moot.

People who are pro-transit will still see this as negative because they've still f-cked up the project and won't be swayed.

I don't know what fence-sitters exist that are able to be swayed by investment in public transit alone.

People who live in the SE and want to take a train to the Flames game, I guess? Which also happens to be in city divisions that went UCP. I think they'll be doing everything they can to hang on to those few. They will be the only hope the UCP has of holding on.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Which no one will use. Other than for Flames games and concerts/Stampede, who is trying to get 4th SE as their final destination?

Well no one was ever going from Sheppard up the north central line either. The whole point is to get people downtown and then they can transfer. The 4th St. SE station is 600m to the city hall station. There are longer transfers within the same stop in other cities.

If it meant getting the full line north and the full line south, I'd take a 4th st and south line and a Eau Clair and north line. Well I'd prefer they get the south line to the belt line and a little further west but they don't actually need to cross the existing tracks IMO.

[D as in David]

Don't forget, party politics will be a part of the next municipal election.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by kevman

Well no one was ever going from Sheppard up the north central line either. The whole point is to get people downtown and then they can transfer. The 4th St. SE station is 600m to the city hall station. There are longer transfers within the same stop in other cities.

If it meant getting the full line north and the full line south, I'd take a 4th st and south line and a Eau Clair and north line. Well I'd prefer they get the south line to the belt line and a little further west but they don't actually need to cross the existing tracks IMO.

If full-ish trains are dropping off riders at that stop, how many buses will it take to move those people to their next destination? Will enough buses have fulfilled that demand before the next train arrives? City Hall station isn't getting you on an already-filled blue or red line train. Riders will quickly see the 4th St SE station and Green Line for the ####-tease that it is.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by D as in David

If full-ish trains are dropping off riders at that stop, how many buses will it take to move those people to their next destination? Will enough buses have fulfilled that demand before the next train arrives? City Hall station isn't getting you on an already-filled blue or red line train. Riders will quickly see the 4th St SE for the ####-tease that it is.

Sounds like a City problem. The province isn't interested in questions like that.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I don't really know who this is for, from the UCP perspective.

The UCP's base will hate this because they hate transit, but will also never vote for anyone other than the UCP so it's moot.

People who are pro-transit will still see this as negative because they've still f-cked up the project and won't be swayed.

I don't know what fence-sitters exist that are able to be swayed by investment in public transit alone.

It's all so they can later frame it as rescuing a broken Nenshi project

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Oh, he's gonna run too.

Sharp, Davison, McLean(?), Farkas, Stan The Man, Harry Leathers, crazy pastor guy. I figure Jon Lord may just rise from the grave to run again too (#JonLord1st).

You could always vote for me.

Why settle for the Lesser Evil?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by btimbit

It's all so they can later frame it as rescuing a broken Nenshi project

Plus avoiding being tied to the $2.1B hit for cancellation of the project.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by D as in David

If full-ish trains are dropping off riders at that stop, how many buses will it take to move those people to their next destination? Will enough buses have fulfilled that demand before the next train arrives? City Hall station isn't getting you on an already-filled blue or red line train. Riders will quickly see the 4th St SE station and Green Line for the ####-tease that it is.

full-ish is an optimistic assumption in this scenario (it'll kinda suck so not that many people will ride it), but that was also going to be true for a Millican terminus.

Kevman's point is that there is little intrinsic value in connecting the N and SE. Main benefit is sharing a maintenance & storage facility (which also means substantial deadhead costs every single day for the next century). But the Millican terminus was going to need 2 MSFs anyways!

But if you move off the desire to connect the lines, you open up a lot of [much cheaper] options:

1. beltline terminus further west (gets you ~350 meters from 7th Ave connections)

2. shallow cut&cover terminating underground before eventual 8th Ave subway (100 meters from 7th ave)

3. shallow underpass under CP tracks; come to surface north of 9 Ave for a terminus between 7th and 8th Ave (optimal connections forever)

4. for something fun you could run a single track couplet/loop - for instance up 4th St to 8th Ave (station) and back down 5th st. (There's a whole bunch of complexities and that example is just illustrative - in the past they were considering couplets for 10th&11th or 11th&12th, which really helps mitigate a lot of the issues running at-grade)

[GGG]

How much is the 8 ave tunnel?

Connect this train to 7th and bury 8th ave red line then run north at grade on center st. If we are going to bury something it may as well be the most needed infrastructure.

Or go elevated and ignore the shading and plus 15 cut off issues.