Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well Joly is a moron, so there is that.

I would repeat it everyday in the HoC. Joly is a moron.

Everyone say after me.

Joly is a moron.

That fact that she is in charge of anything makes me seriously question if there is anyone in the Liberal party that isn't a moron as well.

Also, PP has said dumb stuff for years now. This election isn't about him. Its about removing the morons from office.

you are one too.. lol

[MrButtons]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well Joly is a moron, so there is that.

I would repeat it everyday in the HoC. Joly is a moron.

Everyone say after me.

Joly is a moron.

That fact that she is in charge of anything makes me seriously question if there is anyone in the Liberal party that isn't a moron as well.

Also, PP has said dumb stuff for years now. This election isn't about him. Its about removing the morons from office.

You can see the irony here, right?

[Fuzz]

The next election will be about shuffling morons on the titanic.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The next election will be about shuffling morons on the titanic.

Do you choose the moron who has (arguably) irreparably damaged the country, or the moron who could potentially (arguably) continue to irreparably damage the country, but in different ways?

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Do you choose the moron who has (arguably) irreparably damaged the country, or the moron who could potentially (arguably) continue to irreparably damage the country, but in different ways?

I think both positions or "irreparably damaging the country" is a gross overstatement (the arguably part ). I have been disappointed in some of the scandals and some of the policy decisions and the overall governance but I don't think the Liberals have been as bad as they are portrayed. I think they have added a lot of good new policies (and their fair share of poor ones) but nothing is irreparably damaged.

Also, as much as I dislike the Reform party and their Neo-Preston politics, I don't think they will be as damaging as they are being portrayed. While I do think they are on the level of the UCP (Neoliberal Prestonites), I also don't think Federally the populace would put up with everything happening in Alberta to the same extent as Albertans do and they will not be able to push the same agenda. It will be a lot more business friendly, and lower/middle class antagonistic, but nothing that will damage the fabric of the country.

I agree with a point a few pages ago that opendoor made by calling the liberals milquetoast. They have been meh, and Trudeau has been ugh, but based on policy and platform alone and how the majority of Canadians would benefit, I would still vote Liberal over the CPC. But luckily I vote NDP and have my own meh leader to worry about.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The next election will be about shuffling morons on the titanic.

More like a well functioning cruise ship with a bad case of norovirus going around. Canada is in good shape, it’s just dealing with its share of some very common issues globally.

What I am enjoying is the complete lack of self awareness that conservatives seem to have in the lead up to this election, specially the “awe shucks I guess I’ll hold my nose and vote Conservative it’s the only choice!”

Take Azure’s “this election is about voting out the morons and voting in a moron!” bloop, or the exchange in the BC thread where the issue of people only being able to understand or engage with politics in soundbites was brought up, only to have someone bring up a soundbite, be told it was part of a more complex, nuanced position, and resort to “yeah but if you just focus on the soundbite it sounds bad.”

I think the majority of voters don’t particularly care. No malice or desire for the fascist rhetoric, just a genuine “My life could be better so time for a change.” There’s definitely an elements of morons voting in their preferred moron, though.

[OldDutch]

How is Canada “well functioning”? Since 2015 our debt has doubled, our country is more divided than I can remember, the PM in power has racked up record ethic infractions and doesn’t seem to learn or care from them.

I am not advocating for the Cons, but to say Canada is “well functioning” is some amazing head in the sand work. The current government is a aging sick mess and needs to be relegated. The polls show as much. Unless the plebs don’t know whats good for them?

[Looch City]

Canada as we know it was basically over in 2015. It just took almost a decade for us all to realize!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

How is Canada “well functioning”? Since 2015 our debt has doubled, our country is more divided than I can remember, the PM in power has racked up record ethic infractions and doesn’t seem to learn or care from them.

I am not advocating for the Cons, but to say Canada is “well functioning” is some amazing head in the sand work. The current government is a aging sick mess and needs to be relegated. The polls show as much. Unless the plebs don’t know whats good for them?

Who are you voting for?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

How is Canada “well functioning”? Since 2015 our debt has doubled, our country is more divided than I can remember, the PM in power has racked up record ethic infractions and doesn’t seem to learn or care from them.

I am not advocating for the Cons, but to say Canada is “well functioning” is some amazing head in the sand work. The current government is a aging sick mess and needs to be relegated. The polls show as much. Unless the plebs don’t know whats good for them?

With this assessment how many countries in the world are well functioning?

US - no, UK - No, France - no, Italy - No,

Any country I no enough about the politics of to have any kind of assessment fails on many of the same assessment categories you use.

Are there any “well functioning” countries? Or do we just say Sweden and Norway because we don’t know much about them.

[CliffFletcher]

I don’t get all this talk of Canada being so divided today. Quebec hasn’t had a separation referendum in 30 years, and ‘the West wants in’ movement of the 90s ended up with Reform going mainstream and taking over the Conservatives.

A lot of handwringing about Canadian politics seems to come from people who didn’t start following politics until their 30s, and assume everything was just fine when they were kids because they didn’t follow the news.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I think both positions or "irreparably damaging the country" is a gross overstatement (the arguably part ). I have been disappointed in some of the scandals and some of the policy decisions and the overall governance but I don't think the Liberals have been as bad as they are portrayed. I think they have added a lot of good new policies (and their fair share of poor ones) but nothing is irreparably damaged.

Also, as much as I dislike the Reform party and their Neo-Preston politics, I don't think they will be as damaging as they are being portrayed. While I do think they are on the level of the UCP (Neoliberal Prestonites), I also don't think Federally the populace would put up with everything happening in Alberta to the same extent as Albertans do and they will not be able to push the same agenda. It will be a lot more business friendly, and lower/middle class antagonistic, but nothing that will damage the fabric of the country.

I agree with a point a few pages ago that opendoor made by calling the liberals milquetoast. They have been meh, and Trudeau has been ugh, but based on policy and platform alone and how the majority of Canadians would benefit, I would still vote Liberal over the CPC. But luckily I vote NDP and have my own meh leader to worry about.

Completely disagree. Investment has been leaving the country en masse, and the only reason the numbers look slightly better than they are is because the government has added an insane number of government jobs and ramped up immigration to unsustainable levels to cover up how bad the numbers should look.

That’s a very short term strategy as you get to a point where investment does not come back because there’s no reason for anyone to invest in Canada, and the government can only add so many jobs and immigrants. That’s where the current government is at, and that’s irreparable damage.

In a global economy, you have to be able to compete for investment, and Trudeau has done a great job of cratering any interest in Canada.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

How is Canada “well functioning”? Since 2015 our debt has doubled, our country is more divided than I can remember, the PM in power has racked up record ethic infractions and doesn’t seem to learn or care from them.

I am not advocating for the Cons, but to say Canada is “well functioning” is some amazing head in the sand work. The current government is a aging sick mess and needs to be relegated. The polls show as much. Unless the plebs don’t know whats good for them?

I have a full fridge, sustainable peace, no existential threat to my body or property ( granted I am not LGBTQ or a POC), unlimited access to education opportunities, access to high speed internet and other stable forms of communication. A personal vehicle, a place to live and access to health care, though inconvenient is performed at a high standard.

Yeah there are some problems, but nothing like the problems Canadians faced between 1910-1945.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Completely disagree. Investment has been leaving the country en masse, and the only reason the numbers look slightly better than they are is because the government has added an insane number of government jobs and ramped up immigration to unsustainable levels to cover up how bad the numbers should look.

Can you provide your sources on these multiple points?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don’t get all this talk of Canada being so divided today. Quebec hasn’t had a separation referendum in 30 years, and ‘the West wants in’ movement of the 90s ended up with Reform going mainstream and taking over the Conservatives.

A lot of handwringing about Canadian politics seems to come from people who didn’t start following politics until their 30s, and assume everything was just fine when they were kids because they didn’t follow the news.

I'd say Canada is more divided through polarization of people; not province to province.
I don't know many people who even think of issues in a provinces vs others way anymore.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Completely disagree. Investment has been leaving the country en masse, and the only reason the numbers look slightly better than they are is because the government has added an insane number of government jobs and ramped up immigration to unsustainable levels to cover up how bad the numbers should look.

That’s a very short term strategy as you get to a point where investment does not come back because there’s no reason for anyone to invest in Canada, and the government can only add so many jobs and immigrants. That’s where the current government is at, and that’s irreparable damage.

In a global economy, you have to be able to compete for investment, and Trudeau has done a great job of cratering any interest in Canada.

Canada is right at the top of FDI inflows for the G7 as a % of GDP. I will grant you that they are also second for FDI outflow as well, but their spread is not that inconsistent.

I was looking at 2023 amounts for the G7, the Canadian overall outflow (Net FDI Out - net FDI in) of investment is 1.7% of GDP, which is less than Japan (3.8%) and the UK (2.7%) but comparable to Germany (1.4%). France (1%), the US (0.4%) also show investment leaving to a lower degree, with Italy (-0.5%) being the only country to show a positive FDI inflow vs outflow.

So yes, there is a lot of Canadian investment going out to other countries, but we are also one doing very well in regards to investment coming in. Canada's net inflow was 2.2% of GDP, with Italy being next at 1.5%. If anything, this suggests to me that foreign investors are much more willing to invest in Canada and we do a good job at competing in that regard. Investment within country seems less secure and looks for opportunities elsewhere.

To your last point, I think this is demonstrating that Trudeau has done a good job of competing for investment globally and has not cratered interest on the global scale. The damage of domestic investment leaving is much easier damage to repair, so again, I don't think anything irreparable has been done.



Source for the numbers was the World Bank
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...-JP&start=2009
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...-JP&start=2009

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I'd say Canada is more divided through polarization of people; not province to province.
I don't know many people who even think of issues in a provinces vs others way anymore.

Conservatives - particularly old conservatives.

They still wail on about Quebec.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GGG

With this assessment how many countries in the world are well functioning?

US - no, UK - No, France - no, Italy - No,

Any country I no enough about the politics of to have any kind of assessment fails on many of the same assessment categories you use.

Are there any “well functioning” countries? Or do we just say Sweden and Norway because we don’t know much about them.

SWEDEN AND NORWAY!?!?! are you nuts?

Think how divided that country is over immigration and asylum claims!? That country is divided and not functioning

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Can you provide your sources on these multiple points?

Being an Albertan, take a look at the oil and gas industry, which is one of the largest drivers of Canada’s economy, and what Trudeau has done to dismantle the industry since he came into power.

Through terrible bills and regulation, he has caused many international companies to determine that Canadian assets do not compete for capital among their broader portfolios and companies have been selling their assets to get out of Canada for a while now. A few examples:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deal...al-2024-10-07/

https://www.devonenergy.com/news/201...CAD-38-Billion

https://www.wsj.com/articles/shell-t...ion-1489045655

Next, we can talk about how Canada has completely missed the boat on LNG. It’s taken over a decade to get a project going, meanwhile, the US has built a significant amount of capacity over the last 5 years.

https://www.offshore-technology.com/...acity-us-2022/

The amount of regulation and red tape has made the projects so slow that Canada is lagging and unable to attract investment when the time horizon for the projects is so insanely long. You had Japan come to Trudeau interested in LNG and Trudeau saying “there’s no business case for it”. Which is complete BS when you look at what the US and other countries are doing and much natural gas resource Canada is essentially giving away right now.

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...on-to-talk-lng

So instead you have Japan going to US shale to purchase and develop assets because the returns are better and you can get your product to market. AECO trades at such an embarrassingly low price because there’s no access to market, Canada should be ashamed.

https://www.hartenergy.com/exclusive...ough-ma-209595

All of this consolidation has resulted in lost jobs for Canadians, meanwhile, Trudeau has added over 100,000 public service jobs since taking over, an addition of almost 40% (!!!) If you take a look at who purchased the assets in the links I posted above, it’s all one company. And if you want any indication of what it looks like when the assets and infrastructure are in the hands of a few select Canadian companies, look at how Canadian telecom functions. When industries start to consolidate like that, there is no coming back. That is undoubtedly “irreparable” damage.


https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-bo...c-service.html

[Harry Lime]

The US has it right. Say all of the right things on environmental issues, and fight for them in the press... and then go ahead and build out O&G like absolute madmen.