Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DApS076t_N_

You gotta keep the minimum wage down so that higher earners can afford to eat.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by D as in David

You gotta keep the minimum wage down so that higher earners can afford to eat.

Yeah! We gotta stomp down those uppity servers that are super conservative with the goddamned Ranch dressing!

Who do they think they are??

[Harry Lime]

It's embarrassing to have a minimum wage $8.65 an hour lower than the living wage. Normalizing 60 hour work weeks.

[DownInFlames]

It’s embarrassing to have people living off minimum wage jobs, never mind gig jobs that sometimes pay less than that. And they’re the ones getting automated first. Every restaurant chain is putting in kiosks and running robot servers, or they will soon. I know UBI is basically socialism but you can’t expect people without skills to just roll over and die, unless you’re a UCP supporter I guess.

[Ozy_Flame]

What I love about that arguement is that Conservatives love to pump technology to solve our woes (and not taxes), and yet technology use just perpetuates the need for socialism even more. People become unemployed - or freed from menial work - and now society must find ways to take care of them and ensure they are healthy and happy. Even technology that can make our communities better on a macro level have socialist underpinnings to their existence.

So please, technology away. Especially if we all reap the fruits and can focus tax dollars more efficiently on taking care of people for things like healthcare, education, and social services.

[puffnstuff]

They dont want to use that money to help people...thats corporate welfare money is what that is.

[CliffFletcher]

Kiosks and other automation in the service industry isn’t creating unemployment.

California this year raised the minimum wage for the state’s fast food sector workers by US$4 to US$20. It raised a familiar refrain that those workers would be replaced by technology, such as self-service kiosks.

But the quick-service and fast-casual segments of the restaurant industry continue to grow. Staffing levels were nearly 150,000 jobs, or three per cent, above pre-pandemic levels, according to the latest U.S. Labor Department data.

Christopher Andrews, a sociologist at Drew University who studies the effects of technology on work, said the impacts of kiosks were similar to other self-service technology such as ATMs and self-checkout machines in supermarkets. Both technologies were predicted to cause job losses.

“The introduction of ATMs did not result in massive technological unemployment for bank tellers,” he said. “Instead, it freed them up from low-value tasks such as depositing and cashing checks to perform other tasks that created value.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/mcdo...%2520Placer.ai.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Go to a bank now. Tellers and their hours are absolutely being phased out and reduced workforce.

It’s not something that happens overnight.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

It’s embarrassing to have people living off minimum wage jobs, never mind gig jobs that sometimes pay less than that. And they’re the ones getting automated first. Every restaurant chain is putting in kiosks and running robot servers, or they will soon. I know UBI is basically socialism but you can’t expect people without skills to just roll over and die, unless you’re a UCP supporter I guess.

I had to switch industries around covid time, and my skilled, university educated ass is now getting paid half of what I was. Low enough that a raise of minimum wage would effect me through the ripples.

The only thing my wage reflects is my self esteem. I'm willing to bet there's a lot of people in my boat.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah! We gotta stomp down those uppity servers that are super conservative with the goddamned Ranch dressing!

Who do they think they are??

"Is this all the Signature Chalet Dipping Sauce I get?"

[D as in David]

The message from your boss when you're getting paid minimum wage is that they would pay even less if they could.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Go to a bank now. Tellers and their hours are absolutely being phased out and reduced workforce.

It’s not something that happens overnight.

On the other hand, I absolutely love the new TD ATMs. My wife has a home based beauty business that deals in a lot of small bills, and it was a complete pain in the ass to deposit that at banks. Either stand in line for 20 minutes, then wait another 10-15 for the teller to count and sort everything, or go to the old machines and put in small stacks of bills, wait for it to slowly count, collect the bills it spits out for whatever reason and try again, etc. Now with the new TD machines there's a full size cash counter in the middle that you can throw 100 bills in and it flies through them all in seconds, and it doesn't seem to have any issues with raggedy ass bills or ones with folds/creases. I'll take that over a human teller anyday

[Locke]

Originally Posted by D as in David

"Is this all the Signature Chalet Dipping Sauce I get?"

"I want a tub of it! I came here to get some chicken with my Chalet sauce! I'd bathe in it!"

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

On the other hand, I absolutely love the new TD ATMs. My wife has a home based beauty business that deals in a lot of small bills, and it was a complete pain in the ass to deposit that at banks. Either stand in line for 20 minutes, then wait another 10-15 for the teller to count and sort everything, or go to the old machines and put in small stacks of bills, wait for it to slowly count, collect the bills it spits out for whatever reason and try again, etc. Now with the new TD machines there's a full size cash counter in the middle that you can throw 100 bills in and it flies through them all in seconds, and it doesn't seem to have any issues with raggedy ass bills or ones with folds/creases. I'll take that over a human teller anyday

I worked at the bank. Phasing out tellers and advisors has been a thing for a while. I use the term advisors loosely they are pretty much used car salesmen trying to get you to take insurance on your credit card.

Not sure about TD, but you usually had to pre roll the coins otherwise they wont take it in.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Kiosks and other automation in the service industry isn’t creating unemployment.

This might actually be true, but if automation and AI lift the bar of the skills and intelligence types of tasks done by humans require then there will be a growing population of people that are essentially unemployable for productive work in any facet. This is where the societal conversation about safety net / welfare, other avenues of providing work and purpose for people needs to be had. UBI isn't a panacea for this. Working to support oneself/family gives people purpose in life and simply giving people money doesn't replicate that aspect of it.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Working to support oneself/family gives people purpose in life and simply giving people money doesn't replicate that aspect of it.

I’m not a fan of the concept of UBI but with that being said the investor class doesn’t really seem to be too bothered by being given money without having to actually work for it.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

This might actually be true, but if automation and AI lift the bar of the skills and intelligence types of tasks done by humans require then there will be a growing population of people that are essentially unemployable for productive work in any facet. This is where the societal conversation about safety net / welfare, other avenues of providing work and purpose for people needs to be had. UBI isn't a panacea for this. Working to support oneself/family gives people purpose in life and simply giving people money doesn't replicate that aspect of it.

It's decades old, but Vonnegut's first novel Player Piano explores these themes in an industrial setting, and has always stuck with me.

[photon]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I’m not a fan of the concept of UBI but with that being said the investor class doesn’t really seem to be too bothered by being given money without having to actually work for it.

One thing I've always thought UBI would help with is reducing complexity and diversity in government services.

You don't need programs to help people with food and housing and money when people just have enough food and housing and money to live by default. Wouldn't a bunch of govt programs just disappear?

Or maybe that's being overly optimistic?

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by photon

One thing I've always thought UBI would help with is reducing complexity and diversity in government services.

You don't need programs to help people with food and housing and money when people just have enough food and housing and money to live by default. Wouldn't a bunch of govt programs just disappear?

Or maybe that's being overly optimistic?

From my recollection, it's a bit optimistic. Essentially the concept is sound, but the unwind of the existing programs is likely to be extremely perilous. And, for example, we are not including some of the biggest social spends in Education and healthcare, so you're only eradicating the less expensive (comparatively) social programs that currently exist while adding one giant one on par or bigger to those other two.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by photon

One thing I've always thought UBI would help with is reducing complexity and diversity in government services.

You don't need programs to help people with food and housing and money when people just have enough food and housing and money to live by default. Wouldn't a bunch of govt programs just disappear?

Or maybe that's being overly optimistic?

The way I look at it is those existing programs aren’t exactly perfect by any stretch of the imagination so I wouldn’t expect for a new one being implemented to be all that great. No guarantees that it would in any way eliminate the need for helping people with things like food and housing either.