Craig Conroy - treasure hunter extraordinaire

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Zadorov Trade Grade at the time: D
I know the player was disgruntled, but most of the vets on the team were disgruntled at this point of the season. Conroy just likely wanted to get rid of him at this point so took whatever was offered. I don't like the value, and feel he certainly could have gotten more if he waited until the deadline. I get that losing the internal and external distraction has some value, but last year was a write off anyway, so why rush that trade.
Current trade grade D.

We got a third and a sixth. How much more do you think he realistically would have gotten by waiting? Maybe a 2nd and 4th? Not sure this one deserves a D based on that as I don’t think the return would have significantly changed.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

We got a third and a sixth. How much more do you think he realistically would have gotten by waiting? Maybe a 2nd and 4th? Not sure this one deserves a D based on that as I don’t think the return would have significantly changed.

They got a 3rd and a 6th from Vancouver. That played into it for me. Maybe it’s a C- from a team outside of their division. And a 2nd and 4th is quite a bit more valuable.

I’m not unhappy with the move, and don’t disagree with the significant overall value the team has gotten over the last year, but I do feel it’s one that conroy lost to just get rid of the disgruntled player.

[dino7c]

Remember are the glowing endorsements from the media when the Flames traded for Zadorov in the first place? Me either.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Someone giving Conroy a 'B' for that Lindholm trade is actually kinda hilarious.

5 young, good assets and Kuzmenko just wasn't enough for an A, huh?

Wonder what their "A" package would look like lol..

Probably xbox cheat code levels of unrealistic. Tough bar to set for old Connie.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Remember are the glowing endorsements from the media when the Flames traded for Zadorov in the first place? Me either.

Yeah, he wasn’t worth more than a 3rd when Calgary picked him up, but he certainly played better than that on the Flames.

The guy just signed for a $5m x 6 contract with the incredibly stingy bruins (a contract that team is going to regret, if they don’t already). He would have returned more at the deadline for sure.

[Funkhouser]

I wasn't looking for this thread to become a discussion about the merits of the Athletic. Regardless of your opinions on that (or other) publication, the reality is that Conroy's moves haven't been viewed positively outside of Calgary.

Perhaps we are biased, but I would rank his trades differently.

Lindholm: A+
I don't think you could ask for more than what Craig acquired.

Toffoli: A
At the time of the trade, it looked poor. After one year, it looks like a steal. Sharongovich is critically underrated and will contribute to the Flames for 7 seasons, as opposed to 1 season of Toffoli. Suniev looks like he could have NHL upside.

Mangiapane: B
Trading a middle six winger, who is overpaid, in a capped out market was a win on its own. A second was fair value, but we were lucky to find someone able to swing it.

Markstrom: B
Trading a 30+ goalie for a first was a win. Getting a serviceable, young D man was a good move as well. If Bahl becomes more than a bottom pairing D, then it is a bonus. The goalie market is wierd...they don't ever bring much via trade. I think we did good, but I would have preferred getting a top prospect.

Tanev: B-
I'm still surprised we couldn't get a first for Tanev on his own. Conroy did well to get Grush, who looks like he has NHL upside. We will see if Battaglia becomes anything, but the first few months in our system look promising.

Hanifin: C-
Despite the fact his agent was working behind the scenes, Hanifin as a rental was still worth more than what we received IMO. The fact that he extended there made this a loss. I think Miromanov has the potential to be a contributor for a few years, and may even net us some additional assets down the road, but I expected a top prospect in addition to a first.

Zadorov: D
Conroy should have waited for this deal. I agree with other posters saying he could have gotten better picks. We didn't pay much for him so it was a wash in the end, but still - his only pure loss IMO

[Bingo]

With Miromanov not being the cap dump / throw in that many thought on the night of the trade (oh what a night that was), I think it firmly moves into the B or better category.

He's playing in the Flames top 4
The pick in the future is unprotected

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Very separate discussion and at worse Mantha is a nothing move. If he doesn't work out, he's just paid for a year and moves on. Unless there is something personally with Mantha I can't understand wishing to pass on him, he's a potential trade deadline move, that's why he's here.

Yes this is an excellent Conroy move. You really have to understand a longterm game plan and the PP working is paramount to that end. Why is Barrie even a consideration I mean he is holding back some 3rd pairing ceiling prospect? Because of the dang near top priority which is the PP. How are we getting max return for our tradeable assets which we need bigtime to find our future top six especially at center? The most likely scenario is that we have a good stat padding PP.



The perfect season for us is we maximize our vets for tradeline deals. We have our top prospects getting icetime galore in the AHL. After the deadline they head on up. Let's go Mantha score a bundle!

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Bingo

With Miromanov not being the cap dump / throw in that many thought on the night of the trade (oh what a night that was), I think it firmly moves into the B or better category.

He's playing in the Flames top 4
The pick in the future is unprotected

A good example why immediate reactions are often too reactionary. in the moment, the conditions on the first seemed puzzling and initial reaction would be not favorable for Calgary. But it's clear the condition was based on the fact Vegas anticipated using the pick for another deal, and that opened up the opportunity to secure an unprotected pick. And if you are going to get an unprotected first from Vegas, it is even better for it to be pushed out a year in hopes they are starting to be on the downslope at that time.

I will admit though I didn't know anything about Mirmoanov at the time.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

A good example why immediate reactions are often too reactionary. in the moment, the conditions on the first seemed puzzling and initial reaction would be not favorable for Calgary. But it's clear the condition was based on the fact Vegas anticipated using the pick for another deal, and that opened up the opportunity to secure an unprotected pick. And if you are going to get an unprotected first from Vegas, it is even better for it to be pushed out a year in hopes they are starting to be on the downslope at that time.

I will admit though I didn't know anything about Mirmoanov at the time.

Just another example of a head scratcher for me.

Why would a fan of a hockey team be rushing to a negative judgement without all the info in? Seems like a miserable existence to me.

I don't like the like it right away without info crowd either. That night I was a touch disappointed, but didn't litter the internet with how poorly Conroy did.

See what it all means, right?

It's like the write off Honzek crowd. Is that a hedge? Player busts and I'm right. Player doesn't and I don't care that I'm wrong because I'm happy the player worked out?

[Major Major]

I mean, all you have to do is look at the comps in order to understand the market. There are relevant comps that happened at the same time... It doesn't really get more obvious.

Guentzel is the better and more valuable player than Lindholm. Lindholm got the better return.

Ullmark is better and more valuable than Markstrom although I would say that is pretty marginal when you consider the contracts and retention. Markstrom got the better return (not marginal).

Now look at the Toffoli deal for more glaringly obvious signs of a "won trade".
Flames got a better, younger and cheaper player and a pick. A few months later, NJ traded him for a lesser return. Doesn't get much more obvious than that...

Here are the players that returned a 1st round draft pick of any kind approaching the 24 trade deadline:

-Lindholm
-Hanifin
-Henrique (lol)
-Monahan
-Walker (with cap dump)
-Hertl (term + retention)

There is no real comp for Hanifin there, but it's hard to argue any of these extracted better value than him when you look at the deal as a whole. There are some mid tier assets there and I understand people looking at Walker and saying "if he's worth a first, Hanifin should be worth the moon." It was a solid deal but perhaps not as obvious a winner as Toffoli, Markstrom and Lindholm.

[DJones]

All this tells me is that sports writers and fans are absolutely brutal at assessing player and specifically young players values.

Get a 2nd instead of Sharangovich and it's a win. Get a 2nd instead of Miromanov and it's a win. Get a 2nd instead of Bahl and it's a win. Like why? A 2nd is buying the mystery box, it could be an Andersson! Just ignore the fact that we haven't hit on a 2nd round pick since 2015.

Meanwhile Conroy just got 3 young cost controlled NHLers instead.

[Andrew]

Gm job involves complex evaluation. Running nhl organization requires ability to keep players happy and get key players signed ,somwthing tre was bad at long term, acquire players via trade, develop scout hire coaches etc.

Ultimately judged on playoff success. Early dividends. Will we wij long term.

[Ba'alzamon]

Any trade where you move out a pending UFA who won't sign and get a first round pick in return should be an automatic A. I'm not even sure there's an argument to the contrary, frankly.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Ba'alzamon

Any trade where you move out a pending UFA who won't sign and get a first round pick in return should be an automatic A. I'm not even sure there's an argument to the contrary, frankly.

Jarome Iginla.

[Major Major]

Another idea that people are going to need to get used to is that Conroy is a pure scout. This is what he's good at and this is where the organizational focus is.

Look at the Flames org page... It lists 21 people with scouting in the title.

Edmonton who apparently has the best owner, most resources and aren't afraid to dwarf other team's hockey ops expenditure have 14.

There are lots of different ways to build a hockey team.

You have your deal makers/negotiators - Rutherford, Treliving, McCrimmon

You have your analytics guys - Francis, Tulsky, Dubas

You have your pure scouts - Nill, Conroy

You have your culture honk/gut on the pulse types that are slowly dying off - Holland, Lou

We have the guy and the organization that is going to find hidden gems and who is going to find draft hits at a high level. It's not a fluke.

[Jiri Hrdina]

It is early innings of the Conroy era but it does seem like the pro scouting has improved, or that the GM is listening more to his pro scouts. Could be either, or both. But it seems like there was a weakness during the BT era when it came to signing and acquiring other NHLers. The amateur scouting seemed to be solid based on draft record, but was the pro scouting just weaker, not as well staffed, or did BT defer more to his amateur scouting than he did to his pro scouting?

[Goriders]

I think Zadorov was becoming a cancer and that’s why conman dumped him so quickly.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I think Zadorov was becoming a cancer and that’s why conman dumped him so quickly.

This is a thing?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It is early innings of the Conroy era but it does seem like the pro scouting has improved, or that the GM is listening more to his pro scouts. Could be either, or both. But it seems like there was a weakness during the BT era when it came to signing and acquiring other NHLers. The amateur scouting seemed to be solid based on draft record, but was the pro scouting just weaker, not as well staffed, or did BT defer more to his amateur scouting than he did to his pro scouting?

Brad Treliving operated on his own from what Conory said.