[GDT] Kraken @ Flames: Sept. 30 - 7:00pm MDT (FlamesTV, SN960)

[GranteedEV]

it's funny to see people praising Honzek after writing him off as a bust like... a week and a half ago

[InternationalVillager]

Honzek has played a total of 2 AHL games. There is no real world scenario where he should not be sent down. He needs atleast one full season in the AHL.

[Bonded]

I wouldn't be too worried if Pelletier gets claimed. I wasn't too fussed about Valimaki, Ruzicka, or Phillips though. Hopefully Pelletier can stick somewhere. Seems pretty nice from the interviews

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Pelletier put himself in this position injuries or not. Needs to step up. Waivers justified for performance just might bite us and I don't fault management.

He developed ideally(better than Zary) until he hit injuries, so I'm not sure what this means. Almost a PPG in 1st AHL season, then PPG in 2nd season.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Redrum

He developed ideally(better than Zary) until he hit injuries, so I'm not sure what this means. Almost a PPG in 1st AHL season, then PPG in 2nd season.

I think his play style and size make it much harder for him to be effective at the NHL level.

[442scotty]

I think Honzek has earned a start in the NHL. There’s no set time or age when things suddenly click. He’s been the best forward in camp and it’s not even close.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Honzek has played a total of 2 AHL games. There is no real world scenario where he should not be sent down. He needs atleast one full season in the AHL.

The message to the kids starting camp was "take a job", Honzek did that in spades as the Flames best forward so unless you want to loose the trust of the entire team he has to stay up until his play drops off.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

The message to the kids starting camp was "take a job", Honzek did that in spades as the Flames best forward so unless you want to loose the trust of the entire team he has to stay up until his play drops off.

I think that's over-stating things. These things aren't as binary as fans want them to be. And pre-season hockey is much different than regular season hockey. But are they going to "lose the trust of the entire team" if he gets sent down. No. These guys have been through countless training camps. They know how this works.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Redrum

He developed ideally(better than Zary) until he hit injuries, so I'm not sure what this means. Almost a PPG in 1st AHL season, then PPG in 2nd season.

Valid question. Let me clarify
Need to perform injuries or not in nhl. He didn't do that. It's a job like any job perform. I didn't think he looked good in nhl at all. Add size in he is in tough. Hope he turns out. I think he has Byron upside but will he reach

[Bingo]

I get the argument to waive him completely.

And if they decide the risk of losing Pelletier is smaller than the risk of development for Coronato and/or Honzek I'm good with it.

I just hope people are genuine about picking a lane.

Seems like there's a % of people that are getting ready to be mad either way; Pelletier waived is asset management fail, Pelletier kept with the big club is the wrong message.

[Naitix]

I am against waiving Pelletier. Every camp with the Flames he was always not very impressive. He always gets more impressive as the season goes on. I think its just the way he plays his game that it takes him time to settle into the rhythm of the game. He heavily relies on good reads and high hockey IQ.
He looked like a completely different player from 2022 camp and the time when he was called up. It is not like waiving Pelletier will prevent us from losing another player. We do not have to chose who to lose. I think the best plan is to send down Coronato and Honzek, give Pelletier 10-15 games to figure it out and if it does not work then you waive him and call one of the other guys back up.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Honzek has played a total of 2 AHL games. There is no real world scenario where he should not be sent down. He needs atleast one full season in the AHL.

The same discussion happened with Monahan and he forced his way onto the team with his 10 game trial.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

I think Honzek has earned a start in the NHL. There’s no set time or age when things suddenly click. He’s been the best forward in camp and it’s not even close.

I just keep thinking that this is exactly the same thing we saw last year with Coronato, who was definitely not ready for the NHL.


There is no rush. I expect Honzek to be among the last cuts, and for many posters here to freak out about it, but the best thing for him is to learn how to play pro. Maybe he is in the AHL for a full season; maybe he is there for only a few weeks, but there is no downside to having him start with the Wranglers.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The same discussion happened with Monahan and he forced his way onto the team with his 10 game trial.

Yeah, but it sure doesn't happen with every player. Every year we see propsects who have terrific camps, only for the first few weeks of the NHL season to overtake them. Maybe Honzek sticks, but I wouldn't count on it.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Naitix

I am against waiving Pelletier. Every camp with the Flames he was always not very impressive. He always gets more impressive as the season goes on. I think its just the way he plays his game that it takes him time to settle into the rhythm of the game. He heavily relies on good reads and high hockey IQ.
He looked like a completely different player from 2022 camp and the time when he was called up. It is not like waiving Pelletier will prevent us from losing another player. We do not have to chose who to lose. I think the best plan is to send down Coronato and Honzek, give Pelletier 10-15 games to figure it out and if it does not work then you waive him and call one of the other guys back up.

When has Pelletier been impressive after his injury? He had like a 10 game stretch a few years back where he looked good. This is not the same player

I feel for him, but he knew he was fighting for a spot. And he got lapped by Honzek.

Always earned, never given.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I think Honzek has benefited from Pospisil figuring out what it takes to give yourself the best chance to stick with the club

That’s nice to see

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I just dont see anyone spending one of their 13 F spots on an undersized 23YO who has an injury history and cannot crack a team screaming for offensive talent.

I agree with you, but I am guessing that Conroy is worried about him getting claimed and thus, will protect him. I can't remember which interview it was, but the way Conroy was talking through the Valimaki situation back when he was a Flame and then being put on waivers and him becoming a regular player for the Coyotes, it sounded like he would have done things differently if he were in charge and I think he has that at top of mind.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

When has Pelletier been impressive after his injury? He had like a 10 game stretch a few years back where he looked good. This is not the same player

I feel for him, but he knew he was fighting for a spot. And he got lapped by Honzek.

Always earned, never given.

"Always earned, never given" doesn't just apply to 3 or 4 preseason games, though.

Do the past three years of effort and development mean nothing for Pelletier? Are we going to potentially throw that all away because he started camp slow after an injury plagued season? He has shown great promise - I think he has "earned" more of an opportunity, and if we don't give it to him, someone else just might. Show a little confidence in the kid by keeping him around and it might just be what he needs to settle in a bit and find his game. We all know he is capable of much more. We have seen it.

I am as big of a Honzek fan as you will find around here, but he's still just 19 years old. Playing in the AHL to begin the year is hardly the worst outcome.

[Naitix]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

When has Pelletier been impressive after his injury? He had like a 10 game stretch a few years back where he looked good. This is not the same player

I feel for him, but he knew he was fighting for a spot. And he got lapped by Honzek.

Always earned, never given.

He has looked fine, better than last year after his injury. I think he deserves some time to get back to his game, especially after having 2 very strong first pro seasons. He has earned some grace time. I love Honzek more than anyone here and have been fighting people who called him a bust, but there is no reason he should start in the NHL if that means waiving Pelletier, that is just poor asset management.

Send Honzek to the A and make him play center, or call him back up after ~10 games. He will be fine lmao

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't think that Honzek NEEDS the AHL to further progress.



We don't know where Honzek is really at until he plays in the NHL. It is preseason, so just like Coronato did last year, he can look fantastic, but then come back down to earth and look out of place. I do think he looks NHL ready with how he is playing vs Coronato. I think Honzek has a style of game that he is playing that is much more conducive to success at the NHL level than Coronato.


However, does it hurt sending Honzek down to the AHL for 10, 15, 20+ games? No. You may not think that Pelletier is going to be some difference maker at the NHL level, and you are probably right, but he can definitely become a very good 3rd liner who chips in offensively, does things well defensively, and adds a tonne to the room. Maybe he tops out as a good 2nd liner. We don't know.


You may waive Pelletier before the season opener, lose him, and then in the first week of the seasons find yourselves with 3 injuries to the forward ranks. I remember that happening in the 2013-14 (or was that hte 2014-15?) season, where Monahan had to suddenly play on the top line because Stajan and Backlund were both injured.


What is really the legitimate downside here. The only thing I know for sure is that Duehr or Rooney will have to go through waivers in order for Pelletier to be the 13th forward. Do you want Honzek or Coronato being the 13th forward? Seems to be a lot of angst for nothing, really.


No mantra should be applied without consideration. The world is not that black and white. Some players have a longer development curve, especially when they experience setbacks (ex. injuries). Always earned, never given -- if you apply that blindly, then the Flames should have traded away Honzek since he was trending to be a bust and they should have tried to extract whatever value they could. Should have demoted Gaudreau in his first full season to start. Heck, MacInnis and his wild shot with poor defence.



Flames are in a rebuild. They have the room this year, so why not see if they can get an asset to rebound. You can then flip that asset for something else later or have the asset on your team contributing in some way. Why lose an asset unnecessarily at least until you are more sure that Pelletier has no (or too limited of a) NHL upside? Flames aren't competing for the cup this year. Rebuilds are the time to show patience to developing players. I promise you that Honzek or Coronato are not going to demand trades because Pelletier is the 13th forward.