Israel declares war on Hamas

[Language]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

This post is actually cute lol. It honestly shows you have no clue about the region.

You think because Hassan Nasrallah was killed that a broke country and weak Lebanese army can go up against Hezbollah and its arsenal it still has?

Like do you even know anything about Lebanon where it causes you to type those words? It's honestly funny you think that's even a remote possibility.

I don’t have a clue about the region? I have family there and have spent extensive time there.

Dude it was an honest question. What’s cute is you like to respond to my posts without actually engaging in dialogue. I know Lebanese government is impotent. So where do things go from here? Does everyone just throw their hands up and declare Lebanon a failed state?


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[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Language

I don’t have a clue about the region? I have family there and have spent extensive time there.

Dude it was an honest question. What’s cute is you like to respond to my posts without actually engaging in dialogue. I know Lebanese government is impotent. So where do things go from here? Does everyone just throw their hands up and declare Lebanon a failed state?


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You literally have 0 clue if you actually believe anyone in lebanon can go up against Hezbollah.

If you're going to argue in fantasies and make believes just so you can blame the Lebanese population or want them all to die to protect your little genocidal state of israel then you're just not arguing in good faith.

You know it's impossible for the army to do something but you only want more death so israel feels safer.

[Fuzz]

There is a lot Israel could do. Hezbollah recently attacked Israel because they said it was to help defend Gaza from relentless inhuame attacks. So Israel's actions led to, as I had warned, an escalation of the conflict, and a drawing in of others. If Israel likes this pattern, I guess they could keep it up, to see who else they can draw in.


Israel could leave the West Bank, instead of constantly inflaming tensions, acting illegally, against many many man UN resolutions, since that's a thing we now want enforced.


Israel would have a lot more international support in their defense if they operated from the moral high ground. Behaving as the terrorists do kind of limits your options and support. But they won't because they think god gave them this land and they have a divine right to claim it, whatever it takes.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Language

It’s a simple question really. How should Israel deal with Hezbollah? If you have such a strong opinion on the matter, you should be able to answer it, without turning the question around on me.


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It's a simple answer, as it has been since the Oslo Accords and first Intifada: reign in the Israeli fascists - particularly the sick, evil settlers - and materially improve the desperate plight of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. So long as the Palestinian population is poor, desperate, mostly powerless, and completely without hope, Israel's dream of living peacefully in their "promised land" will be impossible.

Improve the lives of Palestinians and the support for Hamas, Hezbollah, etc goes away both within and without.

I hope that you have been reading and watching what Israel has been doing in the WB the last year. It's absolutely evil.

[Language]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

It's a simple answer, as it has been since the Oslo Accords and first Intifada: reign in the Israeli fascists - particularly the sick, evil settlers - and materially improve the desperate plight of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. So long as the Palestinian population is poor, desperate, mostly powerless, and completely without hope, Israel's dream of living peacefully in their "promised land" will be impossible.

Improve the lives of Palestinians and the support for Hamas, Hezbollah, etc goes away both within and without.

I hope that you have been reading and watching what Israel has been doing in the WB the last year. It's absolutely evil.

It’s hilarious and such a western take, that you actually believe that terrorist jihadi organizations can be reasoned with. Not even Lebanese, Syrians, and Iranians that despise these terror organizations believe this.

You truly think that if a two state solution was ever implemented, Hezbollah and Iran and the other proxies would just put down their arms and live in peace? You’ve gotta be kidding me. Next thing you’ll say is that ISIS could have been reasoned with after some careful dialogue.


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[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Language

It’s hilarious and such a western take, that you actually believe that terrorist jihadi organizations can be reasoned with. Not even Lebanese, Syrians, and Iranians that despise these terror organizations believe this.

You truly think that if a two state solution was ever implemented, Hezbollah and Iran and the other proxies would just put down their arms and live in peace? You’ve gotta be kidding me. Next thing you’ll say is that ISIS could have been reasoned with after some careful dialogue.


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Your reading comprehension is quite poor, I must say. Especially for a guy named Language. Where did I suggest reasoning with Hezbollah?

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Your reading comprehension is quite poor, I must say. Especially for a guy named Language. Where did I suggest reasoning with Hezbollah?

It’s not reading comprehension issues - it’s selective ignorance of ideas that go against the brainwashing they’ve been subject to that Israel is above all criticism. And that criticism of Israel = supporting terrorists and antisemitic.

[PepsiFree]

A two state solution seems so far away at this point that it feels impossible, but I have trouble believing any honest person actually thinks a two state solution would be worse for peace in the region than constant war and the continued killing of civilians.

Israel has given innocent people in the region a lot of reason to fear them and hate them, so much so that groups that position themselves as their protectors have a serious advantage. A very logical and obvious move toward peace would be to remove the reasons for people to fear and hate them. I’m not even sure why that is up for debate.

[Bill Bumface]

Hey Nage Waza, you assured me that it was just "the usual suspects" who inaccurately accused you of dodging their responses, but I see you're back in the thread and have ignored this twice. That seems odd :

__________

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I always do despite some of the allegations from the usual suspects.

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Thanks for the original reply, I'm wondering if you missed my follow up though, specifically this part which I'm struggling to make sense of:

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

It certainly proved to be true. Every jew was kicked out of the countries surrounding Israel while Israel maintained their Muslim population.

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Wait - are we talking about different things here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_P...ion_and_flight

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Only one us truly cares about civilians. Only one of us feels that Palestinian civilians are worth the same as Israeli civilians. Only one of us feels to there are actions the IDF can take to minimize civilian casualties while still invoking their right to defend themselves. Only one of us thinks the IDF is not taking those actions.

Only you think a Palestinian life is expendable in the name of Israeli security. Only you continue to support the IDF no matter how many people cry out for Israel to change their tactics in the war. Only you turn a completely blind eye to the indiscriminate bombing and displacement of millions of people.

So what type of mental gymnastics go on in that sick head of yours to convince yourself that only you care about civilians.

That's a convenient way to take the moral high ground. You don't know what I feel about civilian deaths, or Gazan civilian casualties, but it makes it easier if you paint it in a brush that says that I don't care. That's BS to say the least, then you go on to testify about what I think, you must think of yourself as a pretty good mentalist. When in fact you're just a useful idiot.

I'm against any sort of innocent casualties. However, every war has them. Your plan, which is not a plan at all, is reward insurgency tactics.

Israel is supposed to change their tactics to what? Not evacuate people before blowing up the underground terrorist infrastructure? That's what you were crying about a post ago, all the displaced Palestinians. It doesn't matter that as soon as Israel designates a safezone, terrorists entrench themselves there, move munitions there, and fire rockets from there. Maybe Israel should also provide Hamas better rockets so that a 1/3 of them don't fall down over Gaza on their way to Israel.

In your mind, every Hamas fighter that dies becomes a civilian as soon as the RPG, or AK is removed from his hands. Israel isn't allowed to win against terrorists. I'm sure you were silent when the coalition was bombing ISIS, the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, the Syrian civil war, and even when Ukraine accidentally bombs civilians in Belgorod for example. Were you calling for a change of tactics in any of those scenarios?

Now a bit later you responded to Language, and pointed out that in the US was pleading with Israel to change tactics. Let's see, it might have something with the US encouraging conflict in various regions, because they make money from arm sales. That's the same reason Ukraine won't be allowed to win a war against Russia. The US, especially under the democrats, is only interested in prolonged conflicts. Moreover, the Democrats need the Muslim vote more than ever in the US, and that's another reason why the US has been less than helpful in trying to force their own policy down Israel's throat.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

There is a lot Israel could do. Hezbollah recently attacked Israel because they said it was to help defend Gaza from relentless inhuame attacks. So Israel's actions led to, as I had warned, an escalation of the conflict, and a drawing in of others. If Israel likes this pattern, I guess they could keep it up, to see who else they can draw in.


Israel could leave the West Bank, instead of constantly inflaming tensions, acting illegally, against many many man UN resolutions, since that's a thing we now want enforced.


Israel would have a lot more international support in their defense if they operated from the moral high ground. Behaving as the terrorists do kind of limits your options and support. But they won't because they think god gave them this land and they have a divine right to claim it, whatever it takes.

Wow, anything to blame Israel.

Elica La Bon actually had a great response to that:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1839068976917393637

I encourage you listen to the whole thing, but that part is around the 1:45 mark.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Wow, anything to blame Israel.

Hey. You got that source regarding the Palestinian raping himself?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

That's quite the revisionist history. Sign their own death sentence? really? The Arabs that joined Israel after the 48 independence war became Israeli citizens, and enjoyed the same rights and freedoms as any Jew. The Arabs that then became the Palestinians were encouraged to remain as refugees by the Arab League, as a pressure point against Israel.


So if a rocket falls on my house, and kills me it doesn't end my existance? Sure Israel would survive, but that's not very re-assuring as a citizen. I'm sure you're much braver than I'm so you would be just fine putting yourself and your family at the risk of indiscriminate rockets, do nothing and ask for a measured response. Why is it okay for Palestinian people to keep repeating "It's us or them!", but still not be considered an existential threat? Had the Hezbollah and Iran attacked on the 7th, it very well could've ended Israel.



Wow, why did Israel invade Lebanon in 1982? Maybe it had something to do with the Palestinian attacks from Lebanon, by the PLO, during the Lebanese civil war.



Again, I guess Israel should've done nothing, and just let the attacks intensify.

Lebanon was in a civil war from 1975. It was between the Lebanese Chrisitan militias and the PLO. That's what destabalized the country, not Israel.

If you live in Gaza and are know to be feeding information to the IDF your life will be short and painful, I think we all know that, that was the stupidity of Naga'a statement

I have been 'blown up' by the IRA back in the 80's, car bomb went off 2 streets away from the group home I was working at and blow the windows in all over me and the kids, been evacuated from 3 shops that had bombs in, lost a mate at Crossmaglen, do I think the UK's answer should have been to invade and slaughter the Irish in vast numbers? no even though I have no doubt most catholic Irish have sympathy for the Provos, hell I have sympathy for them, I see the justice in their struggle.

The IRA were never and existential threat to the UK and nothing Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah do is a threat to Israel's existence, Iran has almost no ability to hit Israel, all it's power lies in the money it gives to various low level terrorist groups to build fairly unsophisticated missiles

As to my last point, yes Israel could claim a reason to invade Lebanon, I never argued with that, the point I made and you don't want to touch is did that invasion make things better for Israel bearing in mind it was the reason Hezbollah exists today?

If Israel hadn't invaded Lebanon in '82 there would be no Hezbollah on their northern border, Iran's influence in Lebanon and Syria would be seriously less effective, Israel made their own situation worse by lashing out in '82, a lesson they would be sensible to learn from but never have

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Hey. You got that source regarding the Palestinian raping himself?

I'll look it up, not trying to ignore your comment, there were just a lot of responses here, so I scanned a lot of them. I'm sure I can find one in Hebrew, but I'll see if I can find an English version as well.

EDIT/UPDATE: It seems I have been a bit out of date on the story, as google showed a bunch more articles in September. I last followed it up in July, where there were still the medical report of the wounds being self-inflicted. If there's indeed footage of soldiers torturing the terrorist, then I think they should be punished to the full extant of the Israeli law. They represent Israel while they wear the IDF uniforms, and didn't have the right to torture an enemy combatant, even a terrorist. I'm not going to make any excuses for soldiers that bloodlust got the better of them.

This case is not a representative of the IDF as a whole, as there would always be bad apples in every army. Hopefully, they will be dealt with accordingly so that similar incidents will not be repeated.

Do you still want the sources from July?

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Now a bit later you responded to Language, and pointed out that in the US was pleading with Israel to change tactics. Let's see, it might have something with the US encouraging conflict in various regions, because they make money from arm sales. That's the same reason Ukraine won't be allowed to win a war against Russia. The US, especially under the democrats, is only interested in prolonged conflicts. Moreover, the Democrats need the Muslim vote more than ever in the US, and that's another reason why the US has been less than helpful in trying to force their own policy down Israel's throat.

LOL. So you subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the US is trying to prolong the conflict so that it can continue to sell arms….but then deny that Israeland Netanyahu want to prolong the conflict to continue to get billions in “aid” and funding from the US? Can’t eat your cake and have it too, so pick one.

The cherrypicking of narratives is insane, you must be a huge Star Wars fan with that much ability to perform Jedi Mind Tricks on yourself.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I'll look it up, not trying to ignore your comment, there were just a lot of responses here, so I scanned a lot of them. I'm sure I can find one in Hebrew, but I'll see if I can find an English version as well.

EDIT/UPDATE: It seems I have been a bit out of date on the story, as google showed a bunch more articles in September. I last followed it up in July, where there were still the medical report of the wounds being self-inflicted. If there's indeed footage of soldiers torturing the terrorist, then I think they should be punished to the full extant of the Israeli law. They represent Israel while they wear the IDF uniforms, and didn't have the right to torture an enemy combatant, even a terrorist. I'm not going to make any excuses for soldiers that bloodlust got the better of them.

This case is not a representative of the IDF as a whole, as there would always be bad apples in every army. Hopefully, they will be dealt with accordingly so that similar incidents will not be repeated.

Do you still want the sources from July?

So what is representative of the IDF as a whole?

When they assassinate journalists?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/09/05/m...stigation-intl

When they throw civilians off of roofs in the West Bank?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/09/20/m...bank-roof-intl

When they straight up murder civilians?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ans-west-bank/

Can you tell me what does represent the IDF as a whole? Because I’ve never seen them be anything other than bloodthirsty monsters. How many examples of “bad apples” does there need to be before people like you realize that it’s systemic within the IDF?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

LOL. So you subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the US is trying to prolong the conflict so that it can continue to sell arms….but then deny that Israeland Netanyahu want to prolong the conflict to continue to get billions in “aid” and funding from the US? Can’t eat your cake and have it too, so pick one.

The cherrypicking of narratives is insane, you must be a huge Star Wars fan with that much ability to perform Jedi Mind Tricks on yourself.

I'm sure Netanyahu benefits from prolonging the conflict. He'd get to avoid an election, which he'd lose, and his likely guilty verdict in court. I couldn't wait to get rid of the guy, the same goes for Ben Gavir, and Smortich. The fact that I hate their guts, doesn't mean that the Hamas and the other terrorist militias aren't to blame from the prolonging of the conflict. As far as the billions of aid, I'm sure all the defence companies involved have very nice quarterly statements, but I couldn't care less about those, I care about the people that still have to live there.

Israel's economy is hurting by a lot more than the entirety of the US aid. It has already cost Israel 200 Billion NIS! Israel can't afford another war like this in a couple of years.

That doesn't mean that I think that this war should stop with the Hamas remaining in charge of Gaza, or with the hostages still there. That would lead to another conflict as soon as they re-arm. Every time Israel slows down, and lets Hamas regroup they begin stalling the negotiations again. Any solution needs to happen with Israel controlling security in the Gaza strip the same way it does in the West Bank, until a peace deal can be reached.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I have been 'blown up' by the IRA back in the 80's, car bomb went off 2 streets away from the group home I was working at and blow the windows in all over me and the kids, been evacuated from 3 shops that had bombs in, lost a mate at Crossmaglen,

LOL. Yup. I call bs on this. Seems to be every Englishman you meet has got a story.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Do you still want the sources from July?

September please given that is as you say the latest updates.

Your view is to still deny that Israel is deliberately killing civilians and they might just be tripping?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Bagor

LOL. Yup. I call bs on this. Seems to be every Englishman you meet has got a story.

Very ignorant of you if he's not lying, since you don't know for sure it's just plain ol ignorant.