This also prevents a multitude of other issues like lack of food & other resources not getting to where they need to go because everything has been bombed to hell.
There is zero reason to be against this unless of course you don't believe Hezbollah is a terrorist organization.
Really exposing what people think here.
This is a really strange take that probably exposes more about yourself than anyone else, as there are actually reasonable and well-thought out objections to this that you’ve either purposely ignored or find yourself intellectually under-equipped to engage honestly with, so you’ve resorted to lumping all of these together and categorized anyone who doesn’t agree with you as believing Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization (something nobody has said) or that they are “anti-Israel no matter what hacks.”
I’m guessing the latter, since you put 90% of the people you disagree with on the ignore list and have been questioned multiple times for spreading misinformation and have never had the ability to respond.
A good conversation is being had without you. No reason to interject and try to pull the whole thing down to a level you’re better equipped to engage on.
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Yes, my grans house was bombed by the Germans, we bombed them back, that is war, I don't like war but assuming a war is necessary I have no ethical problem with someone killing me as they try to say destroy Lions Gate Bridge, it's a legitimate target, civilians are also legitimate targets in war and always have been, you work in a tank factory or run a railway, you live next to a train track you are a legitimate target
Should everyone share your ethics? Or is it reasonable to take issue with being a target of a war you are not a part of and believe is unethical?
Are we bombing this area? If so yeah it would seem reasonable for a country we are at war with to attack our soldiers. If Russia sent in drones to blow up military targets in Canada because of the war in the Ukraine and civilians died as a result of the attack that seems like a natural consequence of us supporting the Ukraine. So certainly an attack similar to the video in the fruit store I would have a hard time calling that terrorism if it was a country we were at war with.
There is a line somewhere in this of the acceptable amount of civilian deaths to kill an enemy. It’s not the number in Gaza. It’s not the fake save zones in gaza.
To me with currently available information and my stated assumptions this is in the range of acceptable.
I note you didn’t answer my questions of you in my post. I’m interested in your take on were the targets legitimate and is there a size of explosion that wouldn’t have you calling this terrorism. Essentially what makes it terrorism to you.
The target is valid, the method is most definitely not. It's terrorism because as I said there's no way of knowing where the target is or who is around them. I don't think it's ok to just hide behind well the target is a member but it doesn't matter where they are they are fair game. With this logic you can say well even if a member goes to pick up their kid from school it's fine to blow them up in front of kids and yeah maybe a few kids would get affected too. Again, at least 5000 people are injured. And it just opens up a Pandora's box, I believe in Israel military service is mandatory, now does this mean any civilian place in Israel is a valid target because there's a good chance there are soldiers or potential soldiers there? I would hope not
Should everyone share your ethics? Or is it reasonable to take issue with being a target of a war you are not a part of and believe is unethical?
well it's actually a legal definition whether you like it or not, I am part of Ukraine's war with Russia regardless of my personal opinion, I vote and pay taxes, there are Russian guys that are dead because of what Canada has done and I am Canadian
well it's actually a legal definition whether you like it or not, I am part of Ukraine's war with Russia regardless of my personal opinion, I vote and pay taxes, there are Russian guys that are dead because of what Canada has done and I am Canadian
well it's actually a legal definition whether you like it or not, I am part of Ukraine's war with Russia regardless of my personal opinion, I vote and pay taxes, there are Russian guys that are dead because of what Canada has done and I am Canadian
We’re not talking about a legal definition, you said YOU have no ethical problem with it, that’s your ethics.
I’m asking you if everyone should share your ethics?
no, none of us are in truth, that's the reality of total war in the 21st century, we all help to kill Russians in some small way, basically by voting and paying taxes
The target is valid, the method is most definitely not. It's terrorism because as I said there's no way of knowing where the target is or who is around them. I don't think it's ok to just hide behind well the target is a member but it doesn't matter where they are they are fair game. With this logic you can say well even if a member goes to pick up their kid from school it's fine to blow them up in front of kids and yeah maybe a few kids would get affected too. Again, at least 5000 people are injured. And it just opens up a Pandora's box, I believe in Israel military service is mandatory, now does this mean any civilian place in Israel is a valid target because there's a good chance there are soldiers or potential soldiers there? I would hope not
What about an invasion of Lebanon? Full scale war? Surely that would result in far more casualties?
The fact of the matter is this is NOT terrorism. Israel's attacks on Hezbollah are classified as acts of self-defense or military action rather than terrorism, as Hezbollah is considered a military target. They targeted Hezbollah, NOT civilians. This is not any different than Ukrainians launching strikes on Russian targets where sure, its possible for collateral damage. Virtually the whole Western world has Hezbollah designated as a terrorist organization. INCUDING the Gulf Cooperation Council (UAE, Saudi, etc.)
Launch missiles at Israel (specifically 26 civilians killed in the last strike), win stupid prizes.
I say this as someone who has been pretty consistent in condemning Israel in this thread.
Yes it a stretch, but not surprising coming from the typical no matter what Israel does it will always be terrorism crowd.
Exposing of course all the anti-Israel no matter what hacks that everyone kept claiming they absolutely were not throughout this entire thread, but now I guess we all see how fast the goalposts shift in order to maintain rather ridiculous positions.
Instead of saying "nuh uh!" and rambling on, why don't you take a stab at it? I said "I suspect it would be hard to find a definition of the word it doesn't fit." Well, if you want to refute me, go do that. You might learn something along the way.
no, none of us are in truth, that's the reality of total war in the 21st century, we all help to kill Russians in some small way, basically by voting and paying taxes
Haha, omg, if you're making some sort of salient point it's flying right over my head here. I just think about my 18 year-old daughter. Should she be a target? My son turns 18 in less than a year...is he a legitimate target?
This is a bat#### attitude, again, unless I'm missing something. Really surprised to hear somebody so casually toss out that civilians are a legit target. My 80-year-old Aunt? My super peaceful MIL? IDK, man. Seems strange.
Haha, omg, if you're making some sort of salient point it's flying right over my head here. I just think about my 18 year-old daughter. Should she be a target? My son turns 18 in less than a year...is he a legitimate target?
This is a bat#### attitude, again, unless I'm missing something. Really surprised to hear somebody so casually toss out that civilians are a legit target. My 80-year-old Aunt? My super peaceful MIL? IDK, man. Seems strange.
Did you kids pay GST over the past 12 months? Did your 80-year old aunt vote? Did your MIL pay income tax this year? Then yes, per AFC they all are valid targets. Sorry.
What about an invasion of Lebanon? Full scale war? Surely that would result in far more casualties?
The fact of the matter is this is NOT terrorism. Israel's attacks on Hezbollah are classified as acts of self-defense or military action rather than terrorism, as Hezbollah is considered a military target. They targeted Hezbollah, NOT civilians. This is not any different than Ukrainians launching strikes on Russian targets where sure, its possible for collateral damage. Virtually the whole Western world has Hezbollah designated as a terrorist organization. INCUDING the Gulf Cooperation Council (UAE, Saudi, etc.)
Launch missiles at Israel (specifically 26 civilians killed in the last strike), win stupid prizes.
I say this as someone who has been pretty consistent in condemning Israel in this thread.
When you are targeting devices of people without knowing where they are and knowing that humans are typically around civilians, that is terrorism.
No its not. You're just calling it terrorism because its your last ditch effort to discredit literally every action that Israel does.
End of the day this argument is dumb because you're never going to have it in good faith, and there is literally NOTHING Israel could do that in your eyes would be seen as a legitimate action against ACTUAL terrorist groups.
Possibly the greatest pinpoint accurate campaign against terrorist targets, resulting in thousands and thousands of terrorists being injured with VERY minimal civilian causalities, and people Sliver come around and say 'yeah but it not as surgical as I would like it to be.'
In other words, there is nothing Israel could do that would be 'as surgical' as Sliver likes, because he's part of the 'every action by Israel is wrong no matter what' team.
No its not. You're just calling it terrorism because its your last ditch effort to discredit literally every action that Israel does.
End of the day this argument is dumb because you're never going to have it in good faith, and there is literally NOTHING Israel could do that in your eyes would be seen as a legitimate action against ACTUAL terrorist groups.
Possibly the greatest pinpoint accurate campaign against terrorist targets, resulting in thousands and thousands of terrorists being injured with VERY minimal civilian causalities, and people Sliver come around and say 'yeah but it not as surgical as I would like it to be.'
In other words, there is nothing Israel could do that would be 'as surgical' as Sliver likes, because he's part of the 'every action by Israel is wrong no matter what' team.
Just like you.
Well it's nice to see you chose that over educating yourself. Or learning the lesson of "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it" by dismissing concerns over making things worse, ass history has repeatedly shown to happen when Israel acts rashly. But that's fine, keep celebrating death and slaughter, that's how you get more of it.
When you are targeting devices of people without knowing where they are and knowing that humans are typically around civilians, that is terrorism.
Disagree given the size of the devices and explosions. Watch the videos, was no shrapnel. The only targets were the holders of the devices. Read up on the definition of terrorism and get back to me.
Well here is one definition from the UN(note their is no agreed upon legal definition, which is why I sent Azure hunting to find ANY that not call this terrorism).
Quote:
[A]cts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them. (Para. 3).
And another from the UN:
Quote:
.. criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act, which constitute offences within the scope of and as defined in the international conventions and protocols relating to terrorism, are under no circumstances justifiable by considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or other similar nature, and calls upon all States to prevent such acts and, if not prevented, to ensure that such acts are punished by penalties consistent with their grave nature. (Para. 3).
You can argue whether it is right or not, but I don't think you can argue it isn't terrorism. And you absolutely can not in any way reasonably argue that Israel hasn't committed many terrorist acts and continues to do so.
Disagree given the size of the devices and explosions. Watch the videos, was no shrapnel. The only targets were the holders of the devices. Read up on the definition of terrorism and get back to me.
But by detonating these all at once, they had no way of knowing whether the "holders of these devices" were the targets, or their kids, or grandmas, or whoever.
On the one hand I'm in awe that they were able to pull something like this off, but I do feel like this is deep into the grey area of what should be allowed by a developed nation to do.
